the rescue plan

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billnreese: wow, 15 mins and still there are not 50 comments on this one....

at 06:29PM 09/24/08

eleedy: Hoover? Or FDR? It's interesting, but on this one I think he got it right, there really was too much at stake, I just hope the election year crap doesn't get in the way of them doing it RIGHT. I like the idea of the candidates going to Washington to do their part, so Obama can vote PRESENT again...... sorry, had to throw that in :)

at 06:35PM 09/24/08

grandmat: McCain is going. Obama said it did not need to.

at 06:47PM 09/24/08

ladybug: i missed this tonight. was it good?

at 08:24PM 09/24/08

aslan: Finally, he did what Joe Biden said Roosevelt did after the stock market crashed in 1929...... Go on television and address the nation. We were just blessed that FDR was President at that time and TV was available!!! :)

at 08:30PM 09/24/08

jaypo: My favorite quote, "... to stand back and allow the irresponsible actions of some to undermine the financial security of all."

at 08:49PM 09/24/08

jaypo: I agree a gov't bailout is a mess but i would be more concerned about how much would come directly out of my pocket if something wasn't done. Right now the amount comes out to about $2k per man woman and child. Considering what I've already lost on home appreciation, that is a small fraction and hopefully would allow a stronger economy for the future which in turn would help every American.

at 08:54PM 09/24/08

billnreese: i am a bit bummed about the whole bailout thing... i understand not wanting the economy to crash, but it still feels like this sets bad precedent that the government will swoop in and fix bad business decisions... -c

at 09:49PM 09/24/08

gregory: Quick....we urgently needed to do this NOW! No questions asked...Never mind the constitution....this is urgent.

at 12:17AM 09/25/08

gregory: Just like the Patriot Act...was urgent...never mind the constitution....never minded that "we the people" are a Constitutional Federal Republic....what ever that means.

at 12:29AM 09/25/08

aslan: Must everything be a conspiracy? What...... is this Bush's fault too... like 9/11, Katrina, Global warming (if such exists), pollution, inflation, Spring, Summer Winter and Fall....... Why don't "we the people" bring some solutions....?

at 03:33AM 09/25/08

gregory: @ aslan....I'm not saying that....the only conspiracy out there is the liberal media take over of the networks....:)
I'm talking about HOW the BUSH's respond to crisis.

at 12:31PM 09/25/08

grandmat: Bookmarking so I can come back and read some more. Good stuff here.

at 01:32PM 09/25/08

gregory: @aslan....the last part of your 3:33AM post..."Why don't "we the people" bring some solutions....?" ....NOW we are talking....we the people need to educate ourselves about our constitution....or at least read it some time before going to the polls to vote...that is one of my 'we the people' solutions....what is one of yours?

at 02:53PM 09/25/08

eleedy: www.heritage.org, get your own pocket constitution for free

at 06:17PM 09/25/08

aslan: Were comments deleted from this thread?

at 07:24PM 09/25/08

gregory: I delete a comment and then fix the typos and re-pasted it....
@eleedy....the font type is to small . :)

online constitution

http://www.usconstitution.net/

at 10:51PM 09/25/08

gregory: BTW, since my son was in the military (and still is) before GWB was president I have bit my tongue in any critique of the President and his policies except to say that I voted for a conservative 3rd party candidate each time a Bush run for president....but now that we are close to electing a new President....

Does anyone know where I can get a McCain/Palin bumper sticker?

at 11:09PM 09/25/08

ladybug: there is a Republician office on Market street. I think the adress is 1441 market. not quiet sure. not sure of the numbers.

at 12:16AM 09/26/08

gregory: @ladybug....thanx....is that north of the old mall or south?

at 08:29AM 09/26/08

spero: Does anybody have any comments on the possibility that it is the presence of the Federal Reserve has caused this mess? 1913 was a very big year for us economically... that was the year the Federal Reserve Act and the Sixteenth Amendment were passed, and we began to fall away from the gold standard of the Founders. Is it possible we are reaping the consequences of "unjust weights and measures"? Is it possible that we are seeing the result of an economic and monetary policy that is based on manipulation and, therefore, witchcraft?

at 10:14AM 09/29/08

grandmat: Interesting spero- okay my great teachers (Eli, Aslan, & Gregory) any comments.

at 11:09AM 09/29/08

gregory: Wall Street has ended a stunning session with a huge loss, with the Dow Jones industrials plunging more than 735 points — their largest point drop ever — after the failure of the financial bailout plan in the House....Yahoo News

at 01:18PM 09/29/08

aslan: Largest numerical drop in # of points..... not even top 10 in terms of percentage of loss.

at 04:24PM 09/29/08

gregory: @aslan yeah that's what I also heard....I'm still in the process of wrapping my mind around what this means really....I don't like the panic that the Bush administration overtly caused in all of this.

at 07:45PM 09/29/08

spero: Referring to my last comment, if this is true, and we really do live with a fiat money system that is the result of unjust weights and measures, and is manipulated and based in witchcraft, does this lift current US economic and monetary policy to the level of a moral issue?

at 08:27PM 09/29/08

gregory: @spero....I see your point....I understand (a little) the argument you are making....so what are your solutions.

at 09:05PM 09/29/08

aslan: The Bush Administration caused.......????????? Come Onnnnnnnnnn! Does EVERYTHING have to be in some way linked to Bush? Democratic support of Fannie May and Feddie Mac, lending policies established in the Clinton Administration, Financial mismanagement if not financial fraud on the part of the lending institutions...... and the comment is "the panic thay the Bush administration caused".... ????

at 10:57PM 09/29/08

annieem: Im liking this thread. Although Im not as knowledgeable about politics, Ive been paying attention to this crisis. From what I gather, our problems started long before the Bush administration. It has to do with laws that get passed that affect our monetary system and business and trade. Im probably leaving something out Im rereading a book by Robert Kiyosaki called Prophesy. Im learning lots. I do not think I am so sure about the bill some people want to pass concerning the bailout. Thats like a bandaid on a gushing artery. Sorry Im a nurse! Im concerned that someone has to pay for it. That very well will end up getting paid for by me and millions of others. I dont want to pay for it with increased taxes. What happens say, if they do pass the bill, to all of those who are the leaders of these failing institutions? Do they get to stay in their jobs with their huge salaries? Their the ones who knowingly mismanaged funds. To me that is rewarding extremely bad behavior.

at 06:09AM 09/30/08

annieem: Oh I forgot to add that I think its quite possible that things can turn around if more men like Warren buffet would sink their monies into some of these failing institutions. Considering how wealthy and successful they are, could it be that they may have solutions to turning the markets and economy and whatever around.

at 06:12AM 09/30/08

gregory: @aslan.....I don't think that the Bush Administration is the cause of everything that is bad that has happened during their time in office....I'm not a liberal...I'm not a closet democrat....I've only voted for one democrat in 38 years, and I regret that vote....your response to me (I feel) needs to be adjusted so that we can have a passionate (maybe emotional) lively discussion that will be informative. Debating me as if I'm a liberal would be illogical, I feel.

at 01:02PM 09/30/08

gregory: What I did say was..."I don't like the panic that the Bush administration overtly caused in all of this."....this is in reference to Paulsen's demanding of Czar like powers w/ billions of dollars to fix a problem I don't believe the Bush administration can fix.

at 01:10PM 09/30/08

dougcrew: I with you Greg. I can't believe he followed lead from this democratic bill. It basically a foot in the door for them to say, "See we told government needs to regulate everything and the free market doesn't work."
Load of crap! It will work out it may need some help but not this frantic "give us all your money America or we're going down" stuff. It is only one part of the economy.
I am glad it got voted out by true conservatives and they by their beliefs.

at 01:26PM 09/30/08

dougcrew: excuse me "I'm" with you

at 01:26PM 09/30/08

aslan: @gregory I do apologize if my comments have been abrupt. I don't see you as a closet liberal or democrat..... but both labels are irrelevant, in my opinion. Neither liberal nor Democrat are "dirty" words in my vocabulary. I disagree with people based on their stance on issues. I am an equal opportunity commentator. :) If you check my 2 comments regarding Bush on this thread, both followed criticisms of Bush..... neither of which, in my opinion, were necessary OR relevant. What does the Patriot Act have to do with financial crisis? And you can't be serious that the Bush Administration caused the panic. The stock market had fallen over 400 points in 2 of the 3 days preceding the Administration's involvement. The approach was more like... Folks, we have a SERIOUS problem here, and we HAVE to do something! In ancient Greece, the bearer of bad news from the battlefront was often killed. Should we continue to "kill the messenger". The Executive Branch does not have "any" power not given to it by Congress. The Democratic bill was referred to as such because it came from "Democrats" in Congress..... NOT Paulsen. There ARE problems. The above comments make it sound like a bank robbery. It ISN"T just Wall Street executives this intervention is designed to help. It's also investment accounts and retirement accounts by citizens that are taking a battering. Ask me. If Bush was instrumental in getting people's attention..... then GOOD! That should be part of a President's job. Bush didn't create the problem. He's trying to be instrumental in bringing a stability so we can get to the bottom of it. Let's talk about REAL contributors to the problem.

at 07:46PM 09/30/08

gregory: @ aslan....no apology necessary....no foul....no harm felt....I'm about to declare my view of the fault I think the Bush Administration did during their tenure. It will be an unpopular (at lease here) position and liberals also use some of the same arguments. I would appreciate your astute debunking of my arguments.

at 10:49PM 09/30/08

spero: I really appreciate the thoughts on this thread. Jim and Greg, you are both amazing. I love reading your thoughts.

@ gregory - I really don't know what the solution is, but I do remember asking Father for wisdom regarding how things are SUPPOSED to work. I don't want to understand economics from the vantage of where they've ended up.

From what I have read (in fact, I read an amazing article that was just written Monday after the vote in the house - http://www.financialsense.com/Market/allison/2008/0929.html) our financial problems arose in the early 20th century with the introduction of the Federal Reserve/Sixteenth Amendment combo. Of course, this wasn't really felt until the market crashed in 1929. According to the above article, the dollar had virtually the same buying power up until the crash of 1929 as it did in 1800. Simply put, the dollar saw little to NO inflation for almost 130 years! This is unreal when we have seen the average cost of living double in less than 2 or 3 years. The reason you ask? The introduction of the Federal Reserve (which supplies the government and banks with credit) and the forsaking of the bi-metal (gold and silver) set in place by the Constitution. I believe these two things are the primary reason we are in this crisis today.

at 06:00PM 10/01/08

spero: Continuing this thought, I have heard it suggested that the Unites States should allow gold and silver to be used in common trade again. This would allow for a "competing" currency if you will to determine which would be stronger - the US Golden Dollar or the Federal Reserve Note.

at 06:04PM 10/01/08

spero: One more thought- we all need to understand that things don't cost more than they did before. Actually, it is the dollar that is worth less. In Rome's glory days an ounce of gold could buy a nice toga, a pair of shoes and a decent belt. Today, an ounce of gold will buy you a decent suit, a nice pair of wingbacks and good belt. Goods do not increase in price, however the value of what we trade for those goods is what changes.

I guess that is what I mean by monetary policy being a moral issue. I believe the Founding Fathers saw it as such, because when you devalue a currency you hurt people on ever level of society where they attempt to meet their basic needs.

at 06:16PM 10/01/08

gregory: PORK & beans legislation....who woulda thunk that during our "Crisis" that the second version of legislation as "URGENT" as this would have end with more PORK?...old habits are hard to break...something about this just doesn't seem kosher. :)

at 01:13AM 10/04/08

eleedy: oh, I am so laughing right now!!!! The best part is when this all started they threw out this $7Billion number, and all the analysts thought it was crazy because if you added up the "bad loans" of all these companies it came in at a mere $4.2Billion, but once the Washington fat cats got ahold of it and "sweetened" it, it was right up at that original number, actually more, I think....... It was the plan all along......

at 10:36AM 10/04/08

gregory: @eleedy...4.2 billion is what they needed and they asked for 7 and ended up with 8 billion...we need some Mavericks in the White House.

at 12:58AM 10/05/08

eleedy: We need some Mavericks with shotguns in Washington!! You need to watch An American Carol, if you haven't already....... a SERIOUSLY funny movie!!!

at 03:39PM 10/05/08

grandmat: I was wondering about An American Carol. Thanks Eli.

at 03:42PM 10/05/08

gregory: On my list of things to do...

at 12:55AM 10/06/08

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the rescue plan
at 06:12PM

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