Dick said, "not sense Ronald Reagon

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leahmariv: :)

at 08:39PM 10/02/08

ladybug: not a great pic of her however. :)

at 08:40PM 10/02/08

leahmariv: haha mom

at 08:44PM 10/02/08

ransomedone: Beni-I watched it on ABC and the commentators were surprised at how well she did. Coming from people like Charlie Gibson that says alot I think.

at 08:55PM 10/02/08

lilmama: Several have said the best debate they've ever seen (rep. and dem's).

at 08:56PM 10/02/08

lifeisgreat: hannity said exactly what we prayed!!! which was in response to Lous friends dream about the debate tonight. "hit a home run!!!!" omg. Gods amazing :)

at 09:06PM 10/02/08

hupagirl: It was definately my most favorite debate!! She was great!

Biden did tug at the heart when he got choked up about his family, that was a special moment to see.

at 09:10PM 10/02/08

ms_amazing: While we were praying tonight, I realized that the debate was in the "Show Me" state and in the "Gateway City" :) woo-hoo! I want to watch it now.

at 09:14PM 10/02/08

woodster777: It was a great debate! I think they did better than the presidential candidates! :)Chris

at 09:15PM 10/02/08

ladybug: it was a really good debate all the way around.

at 09:18PM 10/02/08

mommykins: I loved listening to her talk...so down to earth. You could really connect with her.

at 09:21PM 10/02/08

jason: it was awesome. they were both kind to each-other.

she's so real... she's family

at 10:17PM 10/02/08

dougcrew: Joe Lieberman also said that she hit a home run. It was good except that I think Biden had some "misrepresentations" of the facts that he played so well he seemed to gain an edge.

at 10:35PM 10/02/08

lilmama: I still can't believe that his main strategy was, "you're wrong Sarah, no, that's wrong, nope, I'm sorry but you're wrong on that one too" instead of "here is what Obama and I plan to do to create real change". And to top it all off, she wasn't wrong! AARRRGGHHH!

at 10:42PM 10/02/08

surrenda: Ok, I wasn't gonna get on here and try to stir up a hornets nest. But honestly! She side stepped a lot of questions. There were times that she looked really baffled. She did generalize her economic points really well. But that's it, no plan whatsoever. It all all general. She Never answered the question on health care.She didn't answer the question on if she would pull the trigger if we needed to use nukes. I'm sorry I even had friends over I was really trying to be non biased. She seems to be an awesome woman. I just don't see her ready to be V.P..

at 11:09PM 10/02/08

ingamae: Sarah Palin killed it ..... God is so honored by her and totally delights in her. His face does shine upon her....I also loved her little sons outfit. I got to tell my friends roommate(Catholic) while we were watching that a boy with downs syndrome walked away completely normal/healed after going to a place called Bethel church....I think the Palins are coming to Bethel for a visit soon.:)Jesus wins!!!!!

at 11:10PM 10/02/08

surrenda: I'm sure God does delight in her as He does all His children and it would be awesome to see her son get totally healed 100%. Yes Jesus is the real winner! But Palin lost this debate. If she would have answered more of the of questions straight up and not side stepped them. I would have called a tie at best.

at 11:22PM 10/02/08

leahmariv: im sorry but that is crap she so won :D

at 11:26PM 10/02/08

ms_amazing: how do you really feel, Leah? ;)

at 11:30PM 10/02/08

surrenda: I am only going to smile because I have already given myself a bad rep! :)

at 11:31PM 10/02/08

leahmariv: lol its late and i just had to say it. even most news stations would agree

at 11:32PM 10/02/08

surrenda: Dang that only lasted about 5 seconds! LOL! I do have to ask because I can't help myself. How did she win?

at 11:32PM 10/02/08

surrenda: Most polls are showing that Biden won.

at 11:33PM 10/02/08

lilmama: I am so proud to be behind a candidate that reached out and told her opponent several times that she respected him and why. She is winning the hearts of american people, and i think she could go to the highest office someday. This is only the beginning for her.

at 11:33PM 10/02/08

jason: RE: visit to bethel. i think so too inga.

leah... *_*

at 11:34PM 10/02/08

surrenda: @nichole,
I know I can be silly sometimes and even annoying on how I like to debate. But on the serious tip for a moment. How many detailed answers did she give on the tough questions?

at 11:36PM 10/02/08

leahmariv: she did amazing and biden was on the defense almost the whole time. i honestly do not understand how anyone could think other wise

at 11:42PM 10/02/08

aslan: As a "pure" debate, I would give the edge to Biden, though it was close. As to who most influenced undecided and swing voters and who most helped their ticket.... which is why these debates are held in the first place, I would say Palin, hands down. The critics of Palin in this debate weren't going to vote McCain/Palin anyway.

at 11:48PM 10/02/08

lilmama: I have a question for everyone, if you're in a debate, and you just state a bunch of facts that aren't true so you can win in the moment, does that mean you won? because media is claiming a win for biden, but no one except for foxnews is talking about his "mis-statements"

at 11:52PM 10/02/08

michelle319: foxnews has more republican support...most of the news is run by the democrats...so there yah go

at 11:56PM 10/02/08

ingamae: I don't know a thing about debates....

at 11:57PM 10/02/08

dougcrew: Its a win in the polls that surrenda was talking about because most people don't bother to go back and check the facts they just remember that things were said and that is what sticks in their mind. It is an emotional sway at best. Its weird that there are people who take the time to watch the debate but aren't politically active enough to go further and check facts.
I say this not having checked the facts yet myself.
But I am leaving on vacation tomorrow.

at 12:01AM 10/03/08

surrenda: Polls are showing that Biden won with independent voters. So the media has nothing to do with it. Like I said earlier I was really trying to be non biased. But she flat out bailed on a few questions and kept trying to change the subject. All I wanted to hear was straight answers. As far as if biden was telling the truth or not. I would have to research more. But I can tell you this. He answered all of his questions in full detail!

at 12:04AM 10/03/08

Christy: of course the Clinton News Network (aka CNN) says that Biden won. Typically after a debate each party states that their candidate won. It is just a bunch of spin. I think Palin did really well and Biden did as expected. I think she showed that she is capable and has the knowledge and experience to be VP. She definitely won in the likability and personality department.

at 12:04AM 10/03/08

lilmama: seems like in the past two elections, the race was a close one, and the polls ended up being wrong. we're in another close race so.......

at 12:07AM 10/03/08

surrenda: You know I have been watching this debate very close. So if you can tell me what it was that you think Biden lied about. I would be more than happy to search it out myself. I am all about the TRUTH. So since I am about the TRUTH I will not get on and sugar coat how Palin did. She was great at making generalized statements. But she side stepped and ducked most of the tough questions. So whenever you can get those facts to me let me know!

at 12:09AM 10/03/08

Christy: I agree lilmama. I remember feeling on edge last election due to the polls. Something to keep in mind in regards to polls is who is conducting the polls.

at 12:12AM 10/03/08

leahmariv: i do not think she sugar coated anything! she is a positive person different from sugar coating

at 12:12AM 10/03/08

surrenda: @Leah,
I'm not saying that she sugar coated anything. I meant I can't sugar coat on How I saw the debate.

at 12:14AM 10/03/08

leahmariv: got ya.

at 12:15AM 10/03/08

michelle319: christy: exactly.
surrenda: do you work for the media?? hahah

at 12:18AM 10/03/08

briannat: @ surrenda: so are you for Obama?? you're in gen-14 right? from what i've heard of your music you're all about life and ending abortion. how could you vote for someone who does not protect life?

at 12:25AM 10/03/08

jackied: Why is everyone still awake?

at 12:26AM 10/03/08

surrenda: @biannat,
I am in Gen-14 and I am Pro Life and I do want to see abortion ended. Let me point out real quick that I am probably the only one in Gen-14 that is considering on voting for Obama. There are a few reasons why I like Obama. I know for a fact that God told me to pray for him and to cover him in prayer. Last year about this time I couldn't stand Obama, but I really knew nothing about him. I think praying for him made me want to see what he was about more. Instead of just going with the flow. After I did that I feel I understand him a better and the views I had are not the same. But there is no doubt about it I do and I will always fight for LIFE. I just believe that sometimes God doesn't always work the way we think He's going to. God is faithful no matter how it looks!

@michelle319,
It is a nice thought. :)

@jackied,
I have no idea and I have to be up at five!!!

at 12:42AM 10/03/08

surrenda: Sorry for the typos!!!

at 12:43AM 10/03/08

Christy: in defense of Surrenda, it sounds like you are just trying to be objective but I don't agree with your opinion that she side stepped on questions. The thing about Palin is that she doesn't speak like a politician. She speaks like an average American and that is what is so attractive about her. Biden totally dodged the considering the current economic status, what expenses would your admin. cut. He didn't state one item that they would cut. I haven't heard anyone say that he side stepped. A few times during the debate, she wasn't given the opportunity to rebuttal and so when it was her turn to to answer the next question, she back tracked to say what she wanted to say. I think that is where people are thinking she side stepped. I really enjoyed last weeks debate. I thought it was completely fair and Obama and McCain were both given a lot of time to discuss the issues back and forth. I felt this debate was really incomplete.

at 12:54AM 10/03/08

jackied: Hey, surrenda, I've got to hand it to you...I've been observing these political "non-debate" posts for some time now, and I've got to hand it to you for maintaining high levels of respect in your posts coming from a sorely outnumbered position (seemingly outnumbered here, anyway).

Thank you for sharing this post to briannat - I know you fight for LIFE and love Jesus with your whole heart; and I often wondered the reason for your support of Obama. So, thanks for sharing.

I, personally, have ABSOLUTELY no peace whatsoever about politically supporting Senator Obama - too many unholy alliances there that concern me.

Anyway, grace and peace! BTW, I love, love, love all the ministry you guys in Gen 14 do! Bless you

at 01:01AM 10/03/08

briannat: oh yeah i love gen-14 too--you guys and what you're doing is awesome (thanks jackied for pointing that out) my comment was in no way a negative thing about your group...i just don't know you at all surrenda, and was trying to figure out where you are coming from and what your core beliefs are. :)

that's awesome that God told you to pray for obama though...he needs it!

at 01:23AM 10/03/08

hollyfrost: @everyone to lighten the mood a bit I shall quote my father-in-law, "Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has one and they all stink!" Hehehehehe I thought that was funny!

at 02:28AM 10/03/08

cpotillor: @surrenda - As one of the people at your house last night (who left early to watch the debate by myself) I have to totaly disagree with you (surprise). I think it is so interesting how so many people can watch the same thing yet see it in their own way, that's so great, it speaks to our true uniqueness. I think Sarah did a great job and I have not been her biggest fan. I like her don't get me wrong but she lacks experience in a lot of areas. After last nights debate I realized that I think she is just what Washington needs. A fresh way of looking at things! An unusual perspective in a town full of politicians who are stuck in a rut.

Anyway just my opinion/armpit. Lol!

at 07:02AM 10/03/08

latricia: ew cem that's why you left!! chump...lol

at 07:10AM 10/03/08

latricia: I'd like to give my armpit too, Christy said that" She speaks like an average American and that is what is so attractive about her." That is probably what turns me off about her for some reason. Like when she was using slang words, it just rubbed me wrong. I think she is an awesome and on fire woman, but I need more specificity. I felt, as well as my dear, wonderful husband, that she side-stepped a lot of the questions... she looked great though... ((simon))

at 07:12AM 10/03/08

hollyfrost: @cpotillor hahahahaha that's awesome! glad i cook make you laugh!!:0)

at 07:14AM 10/03/08

hollyfrost: could*

at 07:15AM 10/03/08

cpotillor: @larricia - you know I can only take tay in small doses when it comes to politics, I had already had a frustrating afternoon with the whole dress thing and all, so when he started I had to go. So if that makes me a chump I'll wear it with pride!! Hahahahaha! LOL!

at 07:33AM 10/03/08

rachiebee: Okay, watch out...Here's comes Rachel's armpit (I just put deoderant on, it's cool):

So, I have to admit, although I really love what Palin stands for (mostly the LIFE issue), I was just a nervous wreck listening to the end of the debate (I only heard the last bit about nuclear stuff, her weakness, etc and closing statements). I found myself praying and saying, "Please don't sound like a fool, PLEASE!" hahah That sounds mean, but for some reason that's really what I was thinking. Anyway, I was pleasantly surprised. I will admit I DO NOT think she blew Biden out of the water. In fact, if I was an independent, I would probably be leaning more towards Biden, because the bit I heard did have a little more substance on his end.

BUT! (Don't freak out yet :o) I did notice that Biden let his emotions get WAY too involved and was defensive with her about things that were just laughable. The specific time I am speaking of is when the moderator asked them about their individual weaknesses, with Palin's obviously being the "experience" question. So she began talking about her executive experience and then went on to talk about her experience as a mom of a son in the military, and a special needs child. Good answer. So then Biden, who's weakness was supposed to be "discipline", made a couple quick comments about his weakness, but IMMEDIATELY shifted gears to Palin's comments and said something along the lines of (sorry if I butcher it): " Just because I'm not the MOTHER doesn't mean I don't have experience with raising kids and trying to get them through tough times..." Or something like that. It was WAY awkward. He basically acted like he was offended by her comments, which were in reference to explaining HER weakness, and he barely commented on his own.

Anyway, I also got a little tired of hearing her say the word (which I have come to hate) "Maverick" and trying to be a bit too much of a commercial for McCain, but then again, that was probably their strategy.

Remember, I only heard the END of the whole thing, so I don't have a great view on how the whole thing went. But the commentator I heard on the radio said that although he thought that Biden won as far as substance goes, he said that during the debate, he and his cohorts were all commenting on how amazingly smooth her speech was...he was just raving about her charisma and sounded a little dumbfounded when he was praising her. He said, "We are just amazed at how fluid, charismatic, smooth and genuine she was tonight. She looked like she had nerves of steel and didn't fumble over anything. She also showed that she did have a good overall knowledge of the topics discussed." (obviously that was paraphrased.

Anyway, hope my armpit doesn't stink too much.

at 07:34AM 10/03/08

latricia: no yours doesn't stink, rachibee... it's funny about the maverick word, they both had their words they kept using... Biden kept saying fundamental, so I thought that was funny.. I think Biden was talking about his life because there has been so much hype about how Palin is a full-time mom, full-time worker, and has a child with special needs. I think he was reaching out to the people as someone who has been through the fire, and is still standing strong.... whether or not he was offended, who knows... ;) For me, she seemed well rehearsed and ready to go...

at 07:41AM 10/03/08

freebornlife: I keep hearing "surprised" is that because of the low bar she set for herself in the Couric interview? I wanted to hear more strategy and game plan and all I was hearing was "Maverick." That might smell like onion armpit to some. ;)

at 08:17AM 10/03/08

latricia: lol john... ya i wish she would have given a plan as well...that couric interview was real bad for her....

at 09:22AM 10/03/08

lilmama: I guess I never listen a lot for strategy, because it's rare that a politician ever follows through with his/her strategy. Plans change, emergencies happen, votes veto bills, SO....here's what I do look for. I look for character, I look for kingdom principles, and I look for the heart/spirit of a leader.

I also look for moral issues and the way that leader has been tested in his/her life.

The overall spirit of the debate was this: Palin was gracious, honoring, making Biden the target of her respect, connecting with american people, and standing her ground as a woman who has gone where no woman has ever gone before. AND as a woman that has been shredded in mainstream media because of what she believes and what she stands for.

I didn't see anything inspirational in Biden's character. I saw a grumbling, complaining man who contradicted Sarah every chance he got, and I saw someone who lost his cool under pressure, he was visibly irritated with Sarah and exhaled deeply into his microphone to show it.

He is probably more experienced for the job but if people are really looking for change, Sarah is way more likely to bring real change as she would be representing real people. She wouldn't just be another politician.

at 10:17AM 10/03/08

sinyarda: Sorry about the armpit but I am in sync with Surrenda's opinion. I really like Sarah. I think she's fantastic but Joe Biden took that debate. When she was speaking....the best lines were the well-rehearsed ones. The worst were the unexpected questions. She has far more charisma than any of the other candidates...Biden, McCain (zero charisma) and Obama (gobs of charisma), thus she is on the top of everyone's mind. She is endearing and has incredible sprit but the side-stepping was obvious and the "achilles heel" question was mis-understood I think.
Another note: definition of Maverick: ONE that refuses to abide by the dictates of or resists adherence to a group; a dissenter. You can't very well have a "team" of mavericks can you?:)
Just a thought, un-related.....
In any event, I fail to see why she is getting so much hoo-rah-rah about this debate. Simply because she didn't fumble as some may have expected? Not fair. Again, I like her. I believe she is destined. However, Joe Biden did an outstanding job last night as well and despite the "right wing" stance that Sarah can do no wrong....she isn't as sound when explaining facts as he is. Though she is a promoter and obviously a leader....perhaps more so than Obama. I have prayed for Obama too. I believe God has great plans for him and given some of the fruits he has shown in his life...ie. years of community activism before he was even in politics, a statement such as "he needs it (prayer)" said in any way other than sincere is unnecessary. I'm sure it was sincere but carefully judging another and their place with God is key:) Again, just my opinion. Biden did have some fumbles along the way and I'm sure Fox news can't wait to tell you them but Sarah also brought up Obama's voting history in the senate and surprise.....McCain voted the same on some of those bills. No rebuttal on her part, I observed. She can rock rimless glasses though so hey, what the heck.

at 10:20AM 10/03/08

briannat: @ surrenda: i'm a young new voter and am just trying to figure out how things work and how people get their ideas...so keep in mind that i'm not trying to be mean here, i just want to understand.

you said earlier "But there is no doubt about it I do and I will always fight for LIFE"

how is voting for someone (obama) who contradicts that statement fighting for life?

at 10:49AM 10/03/08

latricia: i agree sinyarda.. i love those glasses! ;) great definition of maverick..every time she said it i kept hearing the top gun song..lol
@lilmama...it's funny, like cem said "it is so interesting how so many people can watch the same thing yet see it in their own way" i saw him looking at her like, awwww your so cute! i wont be too harsh with you.... lol

at 10:54AM 10/03/08

lilmama: Hitler had "gobs of charisma too"
oh, and i've prayed for obama too.

@latricia, yeah I know, totally different. i think on a positive note he did not attack her, but attacked mccain instead. i saw her make several attempts to build bridges with him and never saw him reciprocate that.

at 10:59AM 10/03/08

cpotillor: There are so many great comments on here today!!!

at 11:01AM 10/03/08

latricia: @lilmama, ya he only attacked mccain...except the bridge to nowhere comment... that was funny! (to me) i enjoyed watching that debate...it was more laid back and relaxed, not as intense as the presidential...

at 11:11AM 10/03/08

sinyarda: lilmama: In no way was I saying that charisma is, in any way, a deciding factor for me. Nor do I think that it should be for others.....that was simply the point I was trying to make:) I agree with your post that she best represents Kingdom principles and was incredibly gracious. I just did not observe the Biden defense. I felt he was as sincere as she was and when it comes to actual debate, I feel he best presented facts and views. Is their a comparison of Obama and Hitler? Deception is a horrific thing and there is no question that Obama is deceived in his view on a woman's right to choose. I just simply do not see McCain doing anything about the current laws...as much as he claims he will. I HOPE he does but that will be left in the hands of the voters I guess. (I'm probably going to get alot of heat for this) That is if electronic voting is reliable....hey I voted for George Bush:) Just to make that clear. BTW: I am voting for McCain/Palin but I don't think Obama is the devil incarnate. Come On......

at 11:15AM 10/03/08

brianjohnson: What"s really funny is that no one cares what any of us think. Jesus Christ came to me in person last night and told me who he is voting for. Here's what he said: Ted Nugent for president....

at 11:20AM 10/03/08

brianjohnson: Of course we are voting for Mccain/Palin/Nugent.

at 11:20AM 10/03/08

brianjohnson: Or maybe Nugent/Palin/Mccain...

at 11:21AM 10/03/08

sinyarda: He,he,he,hehehehe,hahahahaha...seriously I might pee my pants.

at 11:22AM 10/03/08

leahmariv: i love you brian

at 11:22AM 10/03/08

sarahkoi: Some people on here might actually believe that lol

at 11:23AM 10/03/08

sinyarda: That I might pee my pants???? :) Oh, that Jesus rocks out to Ted Nugent and told Brian about it:)

at 11:27AM 10/03/08

rachiebee: @ brianjohnson: Oh man, I can see the campaigns catchphrase now:

"I've killed the beast. The beast is dead. LONG LIVE THE BEAST!!" lol

at 11:28AM 10/03/08

sinyarda: This is getting good.....

at 11:28AM 10/03/08

rachiebee: Oh man, I bet "the Nuge" LOVES sarah palin. I can totally see them coming out with a Moose hunting video together...could you imagine? It would fly off the shelves.

at 11:37AM 10/03/08

sinyarda: He certainly hates Obama and Hillary....there are planty of youtube videos to prove it.

at 11:41AM 10/03/08

rachiebee: I'm not talking politics-wise, I'm just talking about her gun-toting, moose-killing reputation. He's gotta be diggin it big time.

at 11:43AM 10/03/08

sinyarda: Your right:)

at 11:45AM 10/03/08

lilmama: I actually honor Obama, he does not scare me, I will not be freaked out if he gets voted in, I know God has a plan for everyone. I just don't think charisma has much to do with anything. That was my point. The devil himself has charisma, so what? So, no, I wasn't comparing Obama to Hitler, I was just saying I have little value for charisma alone.

at 11:53AM 10/03/08

brianjohnson: http://www.beenup2.com/photos/331276-yeah-baby-president-nuge/edit

at 12:07PM 10/03/08

sinyarda: @lilmama: We both agree I think. Sorry for the fuzzy phrasing.:)

at 12:39PM 10/03/08

ladybug: Mna, go away fro awhile and looked what happened.

at 01:54PM 10/03/08

leahmariv: haha mpm

at 02:01PM 10/03/08

ingamae: @brianjohnson: Has Jesus Christ come to you in person before? Seriously? I just listened to Shawn Bolz's podcast where he had his parents on and it was so hilarious because his dad said: I am still praying that God will take me to Heaven like He has taken Shawn a few times.....lol!!!
I was thinking: "I am praying that same thing and for Jesus to come visit with me for a few...." sooooooo did Jesus really come to you?

at 02:11PM 10/03/08

mediadarling: @surrenda I thought I'd come in and give you a little support so you're not left alone :) I see everyone's point and I'm not saying anyone is flat out wrong. However, I too felt like she side stepped a lot of questions even to the point of saying "I may not answer the questions the way you want me too". I feel like not answering them at all isn't a different way of answering them... it's just not answering them. Secondly, I thought she seemed really coached. Well... she was. She spent most of the week at the McCain home being coached. Which is fine. But let's not forget that just a week or so ago she bombed in that interview with Katie Couric (sp?) and couldn't answer a simple question about the supreme court. That's really scary to me. I think she makes an amazing governor, mayor and mom. Proof of that is what she's recently gone through with her daughter's pregnancy out of wedlock. ANd despite the fact that she tried to cover it up... I feel you could say she was doing what she felt was in the best interest of her daughter. However, I don't feel that she has the erudition to be VP. Especially given Sen. McCain's age and health... The idea of her stepping is a bit unnerving. She is an awesome woman of God... but I don't think that just because she says things like "Joe six pack" or "doggon it" that it gives her the aptitude or fortitude to fill the position she's running for.

at 02:22PM 10/03/08

ingamae: @mediadarling: you are one smart man of God...great writer you are! kudos.

at 02:26PM 10/03/08

transformed: @Media... Well as VP I am not sure how much you need to actually know about the Supreme court. Also Joe Biden has been in the Senate for over 20 years and that is amazing, but if you look at his history of being in there, he has been wrong on many of the foreign policy issues. He was against Reagan and we see that most things Reagan did was good and turned out to be the right things to do.

Also I do not think that she tried to cover up her daughters pregnancy it was the media fabricating a story to say her youngest was actually her daughters child etc. She came out and told the press and then she got ridiculed for bringing that out.

at 02:32PM 10/03/08

mediadarling: @transformed Well... I suppose it all depends on what side of the fence you are standing or rather want to stand on. McCain has also made some poor choices in his time in the senate. I think that the longer you spend in that sort of governmental position, the greater margin for error. And I'm not just talking about experience, but also as I said erudition. I do not think that political experience is necessarily key. Some of our worst presidents had the most experience (nixon) and some of our best presidents had almost zero (Reagan, the former actor). And knowledge of the judicial branch in any high level position in government is VERY important. In any field you need people who are "T" shaped. Someone with a broad knowledge across the board whilst going deep in one specific area.

As for her daughter... perhaps we'll never know. The danger of media is that when one side says something and the other side tries to discredit it, the truth is never found out and we're left to walk away thinking "oh well.. it's a wash."

at 02:40PM 10/03/08

transformed: I think we should have a broad knowledge of things, but when it comes to areas they have experts of those fields because one person cannot be an expert in every area.

My point about Biden was, he has tons of experience in Foreign relations, but has not made the right decisions on those matters

So do you think her son, is actually her daughters child?

at 02:47PM 10/03/08

rachiebee: just a quick comment...as much as I think how she takes care of her family is important, I think even Obama said that families should be left out of this, and I agree. So, does it really matter if she was trying to hide it or not? It's really none of our business in the first place. The media has just been ridiculous on both sides of this, but especially with her. I wish they would just stay out of the personal stuff.

at 02:47PM 10/03/08

stephielynn: so was Clinton's Monica none of our business?

at 02:50PM 10/03/08

mediadarling: No, that's what often gets confused. The baby boy is hers. However, when her oldest daughter has appeared she has been seen holding the baby to cover up her stomach. If you'll notice she was missing last night when Governor Palin's family joined her on the stage. Ostensibly, the story is that Gov Palin pulled her daughter out of school saying that she had mononucleosis and announced at her office that she was pregnant. Later, when she was picked as Senator McCain's running mate and entered the fish bowl so to speak, it became impossible to hide.

at 02:50PM 10/03/08

rachiebee: Oooh, man, I wasn't trying to start a discussion, but if you like.... :o)

Monica was a bit different because that wasn't his FAMILY, that was HIM...THE president. Now, do I think it matters...maybe on a very small level, but I didn't agree with Clinton on a lot of things (that being said, I was pretty young when he was president). Was it everyone's business? I guess it definitely didn't need to be.

The thing is we're talking about Plain's DAUGHTER. So comparing that to Monica doesn't really work. You would have to compare it to Chelsea cheating on her husband, or something.

at 02:54PM 10/03/08

woodster777: I dont agree with you! Just because people have a great vocabulary does not qualify them to be VP! I feel that what ever shes lacking in certian areas that God is going to fill in for her. And shes not lacking in much as far as Im concerned. Look at what kind of job the Senate and others in office have done and they have the erudition you talking about. Look back in history. She is a real person who uses real words. She is no dummy! I feel that most American people are looking for real person. I belive she has plenty of experience. Im personally tired of all the bureaucracy in our government system. :)Chris

at 02:54PM 10/03/08

mediadarling: @rachiebee I think what is relevant is whether or not Gov Palin tried to cover it up... which meant she lied... which relates to character. That is of course IF that's what actually happened. There is also the whole troopergate fiasco. But again, the problem with media is you're left wondering what is actually true and what is fabricated.

at 02:56PM 10/03/08

sinyarda: Way to be objective mediadarling. Tough crowd:)

at 03:00PM 10/03/08

rachiebee: I still don't think it's quite that big of an issue. I am pretty sure if my daughter was preggo and I knew I would be in the center of the political storm and being watched like a hawk by EVERYONE, I would want to protect my family. She was brave for being honest like she was. I appreciate that she was honest, but I think I would have been understanding if it was kind of swept under the rug. Maybe I'm out of line, but that's what's going through my brain. "o)

at 03:00PM 10/03/08

mediadarling: You're right, a vocabulary isn't necessary, but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. Simply because people with an education have made poor choices does not mean that it calls for anti-intellectualism. It is a prerequisite that must be paired with the kind of rectitude of will that Palin shows. Now, I'm not saying Biden has those things. I guess, I'm mostly trying to point out that the Governor has some shortcomings that personally concern me and that she did very little to put me at ease during the debate. :)

at 03:01PM 10/03/08

mediadarling: @rachiebee That's almost exactly what I said when I brought it up :)

at 03:02PM 10/03/08

rachiebee: I agree, objectivity is important.

I think discussing politics is very hard for me because the LIFE issue is the most important issue in my mind. So it's hard for me to really care much about the substance that Joe Biden had vs. Palins...or if Obama has a better plan for healthcare. I just don't really care that much, because I already know they're not getting my vote. So, I am objective in the sense that I will agree that in what I heard of the debate, it did seem that Biden had more substance, but so what? He still believes that a woman's choice is more important that a baby's rights. I am sorry it always comes back to this, but I think it's why minor things about Palin (and basically EVERYTHING but the life issue is minor, as much as I know that disgusts some people) and her character/lack of experience/lack of knowledge/etc just don't matter to me. I mean, yeah it might be a bit of a bummer, but oh well. So if I am coming off as not being objective, that's why. Figured I might as well just put that out there. I'm trying, people. It's hard!

at 03:07PM 10/03/08

rachiebee: @ mediadarling - Sorry! I totally didn't realize that. Well, if we've come full circle, that's a good sign, right?

at 03:08PM 10/03/08

mediadarling: It totally is! And I think it's amazingly refreshing how honest you are about your objectivity! For me, being on the other side I also have to try to force myself to stay objective concerning the McCain ticket. It's really for me to hear their rhetoric and just tune out so I totally totally understand.

at 03:15PM 10/03/08

sinyarda: rachiebee: I'm glad you said this and I agree with you 100%. That is my turmoil over the choice. I will not align myself by voluntary voting with a ticket that doesn't honor the sanctity of life. It's just the disappointment I have is that I'm left with no other option but to vote McCain. Next to Romney....he was my LEAST favorite of the potential candidates in the begining. Aaaaargh. Choosing Palin was brilliance. She brings what he does not possess. My wish is that the vp had more substantial authority...She'll have my vote but it's because she has it....not because I'm crushing on McCain. Frankly, I'm a bit concerned about the other stuff:(

at 03:16PM 10/03/08

brianjohnson: hahaha a bunch of people trying to sound smart. LOL!!! I love it. Keep going makes me smile. Lets get back to Ted Nugent...

at 03:20PM 10/03/08

sinyarda: Aaaaaw. Ouch:) What did I ever to you? I'm kinda smart. The best thing Ted Nugent ever did was get a haircut.:)

at 03:21PM 10/03/08

rachiebee: @ sinyarda - I totally agree with I think that entire last post. Oh MAN did I not like Romney. haha! I really liked Huckabee, and was really hoping for him to get the nom (Chris, Aslan, you wanna start singing??), but alas, it was McCain. I don't love McCain. In fact, yeah I don't really like him a whole lot. I think he's a little slimy (although, I definitely think the same about Obama) and possibly untrustworthy, and I know this is where surrenda has issue with him. I love Palin, but also realize she's not perfect. But you know what, she is one of the first candidates I've seen (other than Huckabee) who is PROUDLY pro-life, to the point of NO-EXCEPTION, which is an extremely unpopular view of abortion to many, even some pro-lifers. So, I like her, and I DO feel that she is honest, and genuine. I just hope McCain and the rest of the political game doesn't turn her slimy, too.

And also, though I don't love McCain, his voting record on Abortion blows Obamas out of the water. Case closed!

at 03:22PM 10/03/08

rachiebee: @ brianjohnson: I was happily discussing the Nuge when you brought it up, but then you left! Where were you when we needed you to feed the conversation? We had no choice but to go into a contest to see who can sound smarter.

And now that this comment contains the words "the Nuge", I have succesfully LOST any smart-sounding competition.

at 03:25PM 10/03/08

sinyarda: rachibee: Yes!!!! I LOVED Huckabee. Darn it if didn't cry when I heard he was not the one. She is tenacious, bold, determined and spirited....that's for sure:)

at 03:27PM 10/03/08

machew: LOL - A political debate on Beni's beenup2. I say that the idea of objectivity from a human perspective is futile to begin with. There's only One who can truly see from an objective standpoint. So instead of trying to analyze it on my own and use my experiences and knowledge I suppose the best thing is to pray vehemently for His point of view. (Don't give me that "But everyone hears from God differently stuff") There are things that God has decided that pertain to us collectively as a whole and this is one of them :-D If everyone truly sought after His heart and will there wouldn't be a debate :-P Sorry to be so brutal but it's the truth!

at 03:37PM 10/03/08

jane: i don't know, maybe i have a simple mind, but the very God of the universe hand picked some pretty unlikely candidates to represent His government here on earth. I'm not so sure they were 'qualified' the way some might have thought they should have been. I believe He tends to honor His word by using the foolish things of this world to confound the wise. Personally, I like the idea of a vp candidate who just might hear from God on some major issues.

joseph, daniel or esther didn't have experience either, yet they knew what to say and when to say it for the salvation of their people!
@woodster: i agree, i believe God will fill in where she 'lacks'....and i pray He does exceedingly more than just that through this mighty woman of God.

at 03:50PM 10/03/08

johnnycat: LONG LIVE THE NUGE...just had to chime in and join Brian's support group for "The Nuge's" campaign. Let's make it official, i want a button, a window sticke, and a lawn sign!

at 03:51PM 10/03/08

brianjohnson: Wow!!!!!! Jane that could be one the best threads yet.....

at 03:51PM 10/03/08

brianjohnson: Johnycat. YES and YES!!!!!

at 03:52PM 10/03/08

sinyarda: To you machew: Nay.....on some of your opinion but if you want to post that I'm objective enough to hear your heart:) Definition of objectivity: expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as perceived without distortion by personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations.

I'd agree that only One can be truly objective.....we simply cannot remove our lenses that we view through but we can attempt to formulate opinion for discussion with God and others and allow Him to direct our nature in which we communicate with opposing views.
You didn't sound brutal.:)

at 03:52PM 10/03/08

johnnycat: @sinyarda wow, that's like dejavu to me, Dan just talked about "lenses" last sunday at the stirring, and seeing things through Jesus' eyes and not our own, living in everyday things seeing them through his eyes rather than what we've become used to all our lives.

at 03:56PM 10/03/08

ingamae: I wish i was as smart as all of the Been Up 2'rs on here...I am totally an example of using the foolish to confound the wise...i don't get it....ever....but then there is tadaaaaaaaa God in me and in my weakness...and grace but anyway...i wonder what Jesus would say about this and I wonder if Jesus will visit me like he did Brian and take me to Heaven like Shawn....tonight!

at 03:57PM 10/03/08

tovah: my armpit: When Palin wanted to talk about something other than the question asked (such as when she needed the chance for a rebuttal) she asked permission and was honest about the fact that she was not answering the specific question. Biden on the other hand gave responses to most of the questions asked that did not really answer them at all but trailed off into an attack on Bush or McCain, or an opportunity to say what he wanted. So they both used the debate to say what they wanted, but Palin was more honest.
btw: how can anyone in their right mind say that climate change is totally man made? Sure we may have some influence, but everyone knows our planet goes through cycles. Or did the last ice age end because of cave men cooking their food over fire?

at 03:58PM 10/03/08

jane: thanks brian :) i just want to see things the way He does...

at 03:58PM 10/03/08

sinyarda: @ Johnnycat: I've been wanting to go to the Stirring. I went once and the message was so great. :)

at 03:59PM 10/03/08

sinyarda: Anybody for some "Cat Scratch Fever"?

at 04:02PM 10/03/08

brianjohnson: Spirit of the wild running free....

at 04:05PM 10/03/08

sinyarda: :)

at 04:06PM 10/03/08

leahmariv: haha

at 04:11PM 10/03/08

sinyarda: Sorry Machew....after re-reading that I think I sounded condescending. I guess I get a little heated at times and although that was so not my heart to do so in my response to you......I often forget that written words don't always portray the actual feeling behind it. I actually agree with everything you said. I just disagree with what I think you were saying....nevermind:) With that I will graciously bow out of the discussion now. Foot in Mouth:)

at 04:14PM 10/03/08

brianjohnson: http://www.beenup2.com/photos/331276-yeah-baby-president-nuge

at 04:14PM 10/03/08

jason: ted white and blue or red white and nuge bumper stickers may be in order.
i can hear gun fire in the valley coupled with the sounds of first rain... it's musical. (truth not trick) fitting sounds for ted talk.

at 04:19PM 10/03/08

machew: @sinyarda: yep I agree. I tend to define objectivity as God's perspective. And to clarify my point of view (hopefully I didn't upset anyone) It is possible for us to be objective when empowered by Holy Spirit :-) I don't see any other way though.

at 04:19PM 10/03/08

sinyarda: machew.....I like u:)

at 04:22PM 10/03/08

susied: @Rachel...i agree with much of what you've stated...you are much braver than i to make it public!
I was excited to see Sarah's "straight talk" about marriage being for one man and one woman, etc. I love her pro-life values. Both the Gov and Senator Biden were generally gracious to one another. I appreciated Biden's heartfelt comments re: his family near the end. My voting is pro-life based and I wonder what it would be like if all candidates were pro-life and that became a non-issue.

at 04:24PM 10/03/08

machew: @ingamae: sounds like you are the wisest of all in this type of discussion then :-) Focused on the One thing :-D

at 04:39PM 10/03/08

tovah: The pro-life issue is enough to swing my vote, but that is not the only reason I am voting McCain/Palin. I like living in a free country and I want it to stay that way. If I want to live under communism I'll move to China. Taxing the rich to give money to the poor and middle class, sounds good, especially when most of us are hurting financially. But, it just doesn't work in the long run. Those with abundance providing for those with need is totally biblical and works when the giving is done cheerfully and through relationship. It just doesn't work on a large, government mandated scale. It never has. Do we want to be the next USSR?
The fact that today our government just took control of some huge banks is something I am trying not to freak out about. I know God is bigger, yada, yada. But for crying out loud, what is next, the mark?

at 04:46PM 10/03/08

leahmariv: the thing is he rich already get taxes a TON!!! its dumb to want to tax them more.

at 04:50PM 10/03/08

brianjohnson: Taxing the rich sounds great if you're poor doesn't it?

at 04:50PM 10/03/08

leahmariv: the*

at 04:51PM 10/03/08

carliray: taxing the rich = poverty mentality
no?

at 04:52PM 10/03/08

tovah: Yeah, sounds like Robin Hood to the rescue...

at 04:52PM 10/03/08

leahmariv: better said brian

at 04:52PM 10/03/08

tovah: I just keep thinking about the plicies that were put into place during the Great Depression, that seemed so helpful at the time, but now we can see that the long term effects just don't work.

at 04:53PM 10/03/08

briannat: yep...it's a good plan to make the country lazy

at 04:55PM 10/03/08

tovah: policies*

at 04:55PM 10/03/08

tovah: Does it make me a hypocrite for saying that when my kids are on a state health plan and we live on foodstamps? I really think if those policies weren't in place the economy would be stronger and we wouldn't need these things to survive?

at 04:57PM 10/03/08

tovah: Actually if we had no debt we wouldn't need state aid. I am beginning to think that credit card debt and auto loans are this century's version of socially acceptable slavery.

at 05:02PM 10/03/08

johnnycat: hmm, if you tax the rich even more, then they make less money, which in turn results in downsizing, cutting wages, cutting jobs, etc. to compensate for the additional taxing, its a very basic trickle down effect....hello?!?

at 05:07PM 10/03/08

brianjohnson: Johnycat YES and YES...

at 05:08PM 10/03/08

tovah: The main thing I have felt impressed to interceed (sp?) for is that Truth would show itself. People seem to be wandering in the dark totally blinded to Truth. Let Truth shine, Lord!

at 05:09PM 10/03/08

jason: imagine a system where everyone wears a magic bracelet. this bracelet has a direct link to your bank account and knows you're worth $$. whenever you go to the store, gas station, gun shop, circus or the movies, they scan you're bracelet and you pay according to your worth $$. this sounds..... criminal and boarder line communist.

tax the wealthy = wear a magic bracelet.
how many donkeys would it take to hold us down for the fitting of that bracelet.

at 05:34PM 10/03/08

sinyarda: Prov. 29:14 "If a king judges the poor with fairness, his throne will always be secure." I just love that:)

at 05:44PM 10/03/08

surrenda: Wow!!! I by no means was I trying to hijack this page at all! I just simply wanted to give my point of view of the debate. So I will be starting a new thread if anyone really cares why I say that I am PRO LIFE but voting for OBAMA. However before I go I do want to rebuttal a few comments.

@freebornlife, I totally agree with you.

@NIchole, I just want know how you think that she was being so classy when she tried to give Biden a few low blows to get off the subject. You know like "If that was a joke I didn't get it!" Hardy har har... She did have me laughing on how robotic shelooked. Also I did enjoy how once again she tried to pull the SYMPATHY card about being a mother of a special needs kid and all of the other stuff that goes along with her story. She said all of that just to side step another question. I enjoyed how Biden let her know that she wasn't the only one with a POWERFUL TESTIMONY. I think everyone puts too much focus on her being a working soccer mom! I need to do my research. But I do wonder why I have never heard mention of anybody running for office and they were being praised for being a football dad who works? It boggles the mind...

@sinyarda, I do agree with you on the debate. But I disagree on the charisma thing. I think Obama has her beat! :) But it is nice to finally hear someone give a fair analysis and not ride the wave.

@Brianat, I will start a new thread for you.
@brianjohnson, I admit that I am not the sharpest tool in the shed. But even with that said it is so much fun watching people get butt hurt over the differences of opinion! Now that's funny well at least it is to me... But hey I'm too dumb anyway to know huh!!!lol!!! Oh just one more thing I need to understand. If a person is wealthy and are being good stewards over their wealth. God is going to bless them with more right! So if the wealthy in this country does get taxed more. To my understanding if I got this thinking right. If they are good stewards why should they be worried? God is going to bless them with more regardless. Not just for being good stewards but also for the injustice as well If it is indeed an injustice. So it is a win win from my point of view.

@Media, You nailed it right on the head!!! Thanks for the love bro...

Ok, I promise I am almost done whewww. I just wanted to hit on a point that someone on here made earlier. It's too many to remember, I did get lost. :) I can't remember word for word and to be honest I am being to LAZY to scroll up and look. But what I got was that we as Christians should all agree and if we don't then some of us are not seeking the heart of God like we should. Just a thought for that person. In the words of an awesome rapper. Should we all wear sandles and robes? Or should we all eat salmon and loaves?... After all that's what Jesus did right?...

at 06:52PM 10/03/08

surrenda: Why do some people automatically assume just because someone is for taxing the rich that they have a poverty mindset. If some someone honestly feels that that is the only way to help our economy and are NOT being SCORNFUL or ENVIOUS? Then how is this a poverty mindset???

at 06:56PM 10/03/08

surrenda: @Johnnycat, Taxing the rich would not end jobs. In fact it will make small businesses flourish. All you have to do is look at how WAL-MART and I love me some WAL-MART. But look at what they are doing to small business.

at 07:00PM 10/03/08

lilmama: I would like to quote Bill on this:

1st quote: There is this poisoned idea that punishes a person that prospers. It comes out of jealousy.

at 07:03PM 10/03/08

woodster777: @Jane- Thanks! :)Chris

at 07:03PM 10/03/08

lilmama: 2nd quote:

The government’s responsibility is not to write the check to you, but to create an environment where if you are willing to pay the price you can be prosperous.

at 07:03PM 10/03/08

lilmama: 3rd quote:

Man’s government takes from the man with 10 talents, and gives it to the man with one. That does nothing for the man with the one.

at 07:04PM 10/03/08

lilmama: i don't think i need to add any more to that.

at 07:05PM 10/03/08

leahmariv: amen lilmama!!!!!!!

at 07:09PM 10/03/08

surrenda: first, there is a difference between rich and wealthy. yes I did say rich but that doesn't regulate me to being poor. I am wealthy in a lot of areas in my life. Like most I do lack in some areas. Every penny I have I work hard for, so is it fair that the rich get richer for my hard work and sweat. Now dont get me wrong I am not a complainer, I do what I gotta do and I dont think twice. The rich have done just as much as every other working american to get higher taxes. If the middle to lower wage earners have been taking one for the team for the past 8 years, without complaint then why can't the rich try it for the next 8? Is what good for the goose not good for the gander?

at 07:09PM 10/03/08

woodster777: @Jane-Very well said ealier (lol way up there) bringing up Ester, Danile and Joseph! :)Chris

at 07:10PM 10/03/08

surrenda: i dont recall saying anything about punishing the rich, but that is a good point that pastor bill made. Thank God the rest of the country is not wanting to do it out of jealousy but rather trying to get our country out of great debt that the past 8 years have put us in.

at 07:12PM 10/03/08

briannat: @lilmama: that was such a good message on sunday. everyone should get the podcast!!

at 07:12PM 10/03/08

leahmariv: @ surrenda do you know how much the rich get taxed now? it is way more then we get taxed. its 35 % to me that is high enough!!!

at 07:18PM 10/03/08

lilmama: @surrenda, it doesn't make sense when you say that the middle to lower wage earners have been taking one for the team for the last 8 years. are you willing to compare how many taxes you've paid with how many taxes someone who makes over 100k a year has paid? and I'm talking percentage-wise. middle to low income get plenty of tax breaks and government assistance. i would consider ourselves to be middle class, we hardly pay anything in taxes after we deduct everything, so i don't get it.

at 07:18PM 10/03/08

leahmariv: and im not complaining about paying the taxes i am thankful God always provides for me too pay them (just had to make sure that was said :)

at 07:20PM 10/03/08

lilmama: in fact, when i was making less money, i qualified for earned income credit, which meant i didn't pay any taxes, the government paid me at tax time!

at 07:21PM 10/03/08

woodster777: @daddyrattt- I agree its not the solitary fault of the presidency. Are any of you who are talking about taxing the rich self employed?

at 07:29PM 10/03/08

jane: @ woodster: thanks :) and @ lilmama & brianat: yes, absolutely, i agree everyone should listen to bill's message...moral money...very good perspective!!!

at 07:48PM 10/03/08

brianjohnson: Ted White and Blue.....

at 08:20PM 10/03/08

billnreese: the "rich" are taxed 50% of every penny they make. i don't see how that is right. i am considered "poor" by our irs, i have no problem admitting it and i don't pay any taxes except the hard tax for my husband and i each being self-employed (bill also works for a corporation, so has some withheld). hard tax is your part and the employer's part of social security and medicare. but, we are so low we have paid no income tax the past 4 years. just because i have benefited by government programs doesn't mean i think it is the best way - it actually makes me not want government run health care, though i have been thankful for the help when we have needed it. anyways, it is jealously that says someone "owes" me anything or that i am entitled to anything. if i believe God to be my provider, i do not need to expect the government to make other people pay more. you can have tons of money and still live in a poverty mindset. remember that the Lord said we don't deserve ANYTHING, not even our salvation, but it is by grace alone that we are saved through faith, not works that any man may boast. we definitely don't deserve others to work hard to pay for our countries debt - we all should pay our share. that is why i am all for fair-tax (sales tax based and no income tax, so we are equally taxed on what we consume rather than what we make).

anyways, to the self employment question - from what i understand fortune magazine defines big business to be 500+ employees and a $25 million investment, so the "rich" who are making $250,000 or more ARE our small business people that we are punishing. remember that the "rich" aren't just liquid assets that can be taxed right now. every tax hike on the rich is in reality punishing the small business owners, not the owners of walmart. if you don't believe me, do a little research. you will be surprised.

sorry so long. also, the economy is interesting to me, but the issue of life is #1. -c

at 08:23PM 10/03/08

billnreese: brian, you are cracking me up. in all reality, i don't even know who ted nugent really is, except some hunter guy. i know. you and your dad, and my brother in law ben are ashamed. -c

at 08:31PM 10/03/08

brianjohnson: Ashamed?

at 08:32PM 10/03/08

lilmama: @billnreese - good points!

@brian, thanks for keeping the humor alive.

at 08:37PM 10/03/08

surrenda: :) All I can say is that my views is obviously not 98.9% of your views! LOL!!! But I love you all anyways!!! I don't want to get ear yanked by my wife. But I will be starting my thread on how I am for LIFE and OBAMA in a little while... ;)

at 08:44PM 10/03/08

woodster777: We have a small may i repeat very small business and we are taxed plenty. And yes I agree the issue of Life is #1!!!!!!! :)Chris

at 08:45PM 10/03/08

brianjohnson: Surrenda are you really going to start a thread about Life and Obama? You're not going to get this group to budge.

at 09:10PM 10/03/08

aslan: @brianjohnson.... I'm sure Charis means that you guys are ashamed of "her" for being your relative and not knowing who Nugent is.... :)

In general,

Got a point to make later about Palin's "lying" and cover-up.. a fact as it was described in a previous comment..... I'm just so curious to actually talk to someone who knows her, the pe