Before any of you vote, watch this video http://www.eyeblast.tv/Public/Video.aspx?rsrcID=2036

benleedy: For the first time in my life, I am afraid for the future of my country. If BHO is elected president, we're in for a very rough ride. People thought Hillary would be bad, but if BHO's cabinet is anything like the mentors of his past . . . well . . . let's just say we won't have to worry about poor foreign relations with other communist countries.

at 10:44PM 11/02/08

sinyarda: I deleted my comment and wish I could "un-send" you the email. I probably just need to keep my opinion of the video to myself. I don't want to add fuel to an already blazing fire here on bup2.:)

at 11:04PM 11/02/08

myriah: Yikes!!!

at 11:27PM 11/02/08

benleedy: If anyone was wondering what Biden was talking about when he said Obama's administration would be tested, read this: http://www.dineshdsouza.com/books/enemy-intro.html

at 11:38PM 11/02/08

cozby: Wow...

at 06:54AM 11/03/08

eleedy: Great link, ben, thanks.

at 08:31AM 11/03/08

cathy_1942: Wow to Eli and Ben! Thanks, I just wish everyone could see and read these!

at 08:58AM 11/03/08

robinlawson: Thanks, Eli. . . . I just emailed the link to a bunch of people. I hope people WAKE UP before they cast their vote.

at 11:51AM 11/03/08

jen: wow! i just watched that.

at 12:20PM 11/03/08

eleedy: Thank jackied, she is the one that sent me the link, I had not seen a video that put everything in to context quite as well, I tried to put together a blog on all of that info, but it was tedious to be accurate and chronological, it's nice when someone does it for you ;-).

Thanks jackied for showing me this

at 12:37PM 11/03/08

benleedy: I'm counting the days until Eli will be a guest on Hannity & Colmes. :)

at 01:32PM 11/03/08

benleedy: Make that Rush.

at 01:33PM 11/03/08

abeleedy: Thanks eleedy for the video. Wake up people, (America). You can call a cow-pie a cinnamon-roll and you might fool some people, but it still tastes like ... well, it tastes bad.

at 07:01PM 11/03/08

eleedy: you would know, wouldn't you, dad? ;-)

at 08:15PM 11/03/08

cathy_1942: @Abe: LOL

at 08:41PM 11/03/08

maryj: Ben I so know how you feel, re: your first comment, such a erie feeling when I think about it.@ Abe, LOL

at 08:57PM 11/03/08

johnlawson: Watched it....Wow!! It is mind boggling that this guy will be considered to run our great country.

at 10:10PM 11/03/08

abeleedy: Ben, thanks for that great link. Its a pretty long read but i sure wish everyone would see it. i read the whole thing. Same stuff you had already been saying.

at 05:18PM 11/04/08

benleedy: I have to credit a co-worker for showing that book to me. You'll never get a cultural lib to admit any of that as a possibility, but it makes perfect sense historically and if you know anything about Islam.

at 07:11PM 11/04/08

cathy_1942: @Ben: It was great! Thank you!

at 07:18PM 11/04/08

abeleedy: Wow Ben. Great comment on that other thread. "I'd rather have McCain break all his promises than have Obama keep his! Whooee! Did you think that up?

at 07:25PM 11/04/08

cathy_1942: Ooooo, I like that too!

at 07:28PM 11/04/08

benleedy: I don't create the truth, I just try to bring it to light.

at 07:36PM 11/04/08

cathy_1942: Amen to that!

at 08:29PM 11/04/08

abeleedy: Works for me! thanks

at 08:31PM 11/04/08

sinyarda: No picking on you eli and I'm sure you are feeling very overwhelmed and sad right now but......when you feel up to it, please check out this link
http://www.elijahlist.com/words/display_word/6340
It is a word from Kim Clement from March 2007 regarding Obama and this election. God's choice in him and what He plans to do. It's encouraging. It is a great word for us all. Be of good cheer.
"Yes He Can!" God can!
Amanda

at 11:01PM 11/04/08

eleedy: Thanks for the link, amanda, I don't ever know what to make of words like that. They go against everything I feel and "know", but who am I to argue God's way. I try not to put too much stock in people's words from the Lord that I do not personally know and trust because there have been so many that have blown it and hurt a lot of people in the process. Not that I do not accept prophetic words, I'm just cautious and protective, I suppose.
I am not too upset about this, I realized this was going to be the outcome a few days ago, it's where we go from here that is key. I believe in Conservatism, and I believe that Obama's radical views will leave a bad taste in the mouth of America in the following four years and he will be voted out and replaced by a Conservative. We need to rise up in grassroots organizations and take back our nation.
I'm going to try to get some sleep, I am happy to see that Prop 8 has won (at least it is projected to), that is a huge victory for California. I am going to focus on our wonderful state for now and let Obama reveal himself.

at 11:23PM 11/04/08

gingers1025: I am saddened by many things about this election. I voted for M/P ticket and felt they were going to win, so I am sad that was not the case. But I believe what saddens me most is when my own party uses and promotes propaganda. I watched the clip hoping it was simply good information, and found well crafted propaganda designed to do the very things we say we stand against. I love the truth and those that speak it clearly and honestly, but even the truth when "spun" is a deception. I was angered and frustrated when the Democrats took McCain's and Palin's words out of context and now we have sunk to the same level. I would have loved to read your list chronological list of events Eli, because it would have been just the facts. The imagery they used was designed to create a tension and to promote a negative feeling regardless of the facts. I don't like Obama, but it still hurt me to see these tactics used. When will we finally realize that in order to have the blessing of God we will have to rise above this kind of "truth". I am very disappointed. We are better than this.

at 10:10PM 11/05/08

benleedy: What's wrong with this "kind" of truth. The truth is the truth. I don't think anything was taken out of context. I didn't see anything that was false. It was simply trying to bring to light what the left wing media and McCain's campaign refused to, that Obama has ties to people who hate America. Now we know that at least half the people in America don't care if their leader loves their country, as long as he's promising to give "free" handouts.

at 10:23PM 11/05/08

gingers1025: The problem with it was not the information it was the way it was presented. The truth can be presented in a way that twists it and you are and intelligent young man and know that. It used classic propaganda techniques and that is what I was addressing. The Democrats used this kind of truth on the Republicans and we scream "foul", we can't then do the same thing and call it truth.

at 10:30PM 11/05/08

sinyarda: I'm so glad you mentioned this Gingers...I felt the same but for the sake of peace I kept my mouth shut. Now this post is no different than that of the "George Bush war=$$$" post. It quite clearly was a produced and cleverly edited video promoting a specific agenda. Obviously hatred and fear was the goal. Not the content alone. It is disappointing we, as Christians, feel this type of propaganda is acceptable when it is directed at our "enemies". I practically fell out of my chair at the Muslim bit. Now, (even before) with Obama as our president elect, like it or not, (most of us not:) it is inflammatory, argumentative and mean spirited to leave this particular video up....than again, I felt Greg's post was his choice and his opinion is his right and God is pretty confident in His choices so.....

at 10:39PM 11/05/08

johnlawson: If Ben Stein presented the facts in a dull, monotone way would that make the truth more palatible? Regardless of how it was presented, the truth still remains.

at 10:40PM 11/05/08

sinyarda: How can you be certain EVERY utterance, 'fact", background and context was truth? Can you really? I was argued with about McCain and Bush's intentions whilst celebrating on a terrible tragic day. I was told how can I "know" for sure the photo was taken the same day, the meeting wasn't about something else, the media didn't "spin" the actual events....get my drift???? The point was taken and I realized I can't be certain. Besides, if anyone can watch that video and not feel fear and ill will than I must be over sensitive. I didn't even vote Obama and I was and still am offended.

at 10:47PM 11/05/08

johnlawson: @siyarda...good point on assuming all is the truth. I should have added "if all stated is indeed the truth"...That sounds better. If you're reading this, add this part to my above post.....There, that's better.

at 10:59PM 11/05/08

gingers1025: @johnlawson it is not the tone of voice— as I said before the techniques used were classic propaganda. There are ways of using pictures, and words and sound bits to create ANY impression you want. They are all actual things that were said, and actual pictures, but carefully crafted to create fear. As I said, I am not a fan of Obama but we cannot condemn it when the other side does it and call it truth when we use it. Propaganda is manipulation, manipulation is witchcraft, I don't choose to practice witchcraft to make my point, to win or in this case to lose without dignity.

at 10:59PM 11/05/08

sinyarda: johnlawson: :)...added and it is better:)

at 11:00PM 11/05/08

johnlawson: Ok then....Use Ben Stein ( Bueller...Bueller..Bueller) no music, and have him sitting in a room by himself reading, lights only on him. What would that do for the "information"(notice I didn't use the word facts) presented. Then would it be propoganda and hype and manipulation?

at 11:13PM 11/05/08

benleedy: Sometimes this is the kind of presentation it takes to open people's eyes. Personally, I am never offended by "spin". Lies, yes, but everyone has their opinion and as long as you are stating facts, you can say it however you want. As long as you stick to the facts. What did they say in that video that was a lie?

at 11:18PM 11/05/08

gingers1025: @johnlawson I think I have answered that question about 3 times in this thread @ Ben your last statement scares me. Everyone does have their opinion but opinions are not truth or facts. As for how you say it, God gives us free will— we can do anything, but there are things that are beneath us. We want Gods blessing and yet we act like unbelievers and use manipulation to further our cause instead of being righteous. If we want to truly turn this country around it will not be with videos like this. It will be with honor, integrity, real honesty and re-establishing God's righteousness and we can't do that if we sink to the level of Obama's of the world.

at 11:31PM 11/05/08

gingers1025: P.S Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness; Who substitute bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter! Isaiah 5:20

at 11:34PM 11/05/08

eleedy: I would like to stand by my decision to post this video. I agree that the video was very well made (creatively that is), and I understand the music and the editing of such videos can create more emotion than convey truth. However, this was the only video that I could find that included everything that I wanted said. If there was an alternative out there with all of the FACTS without the "propaganda" I would have posted it. The FACT is, no one has denied any of the information in this video, including Barack Obama himself, except to try to spin the facts to downplay it.

I would be more than willing to chronologically detail all of the FACTS that exist about Barack Hussein Obama, however, it is too late. He is now the President (Elect) and we must honor our leader, whether we agree with him or not. If he commits a crime against the state that would bring about impeachment, I will lead the charge. If he makes decisions that are not in the best interest of our nation, than I will point out the need for a Conservative in the White House in 2012. For now, there is no reason to bring up past associations, choices, positions, or judgements.

We must stand together as a nation behind our President, whether he chooses to stand with or against the people.

What we all need to do, Christian, agnostic, Conservative, or liberal is guard ourselves from revolutionary thought that may be presented and spread by this administration. We must each educate ourselves in the history of revolutionary leaders and the words they say, that sound good at first, but lead to more and more freedoms being forfeit for the "good of the whole". Think about it, and let's all keep our ears open, but pray that it won't happen. I truly hope and pray for the best for Obama, our President (elect). When the President succeeds, we succeed and that is my primary desire.

at 11:04AM 11/08/08

elijahrunyan: all I have to say is wow. I have so many opinions about this but it would take way to long to express them. But I echo gingers sentamints

at 11:17AM 11/08/08

surrenda: @eleedy,
I am not saying that I am a Che follower... But do you know why his face is on that Cuban flag? The reason is because he (Che) tried to help Cuba be freed from the dictatorship of Fidel Castro. My guess is, that is why that flag is hanging in the back round. I could be wrong but that woman looks Cuban to me. Now how and the heck does that connect Obama to Che? It doesn't... Also I watched a video in the Nineties about Bill Clinton and how he was supposed to be the anti christ... It was very convincing, but obviously not true! I also remember watching Fahrenheit 911 earlier this decade. Again it was very convincing. But it also was not true... I am glad that you are praying for our new president.

at 11:20AM 11/08/08

abeleedy: Maybe they could have had a picture of Abraham Lincoln, or maybe George Washington. America has plenty of true American heroes and patriots.

at 11:29AM 11/08/08

surrenda: @aleedy,
That is very true... But to a lot of Cuban Americans, Che is a hero to them. He tried to help be free from the oppression of dictatorship.. I have never walked in a Cuban's shoes, but I can only imagine how much this might mean to them as a people...

at 11:44AM 11/08/08

gingers1025: @Eli your response speaks volumes about the man you are and are becoming. I applaud your conviction and courage. I also stand by what I said but I also give others place to have their opinions. I appreciate that you admitted the clip leaned heavily on evoking an emotional response rather than a well studied conclusion based on the facts or a leading if the holy spirit. I understand the reasons why you did it. It still concerns me that you believe the "end justifies the means". I am sure the Obama campaign feels the smears and deceptions were "worth" it because they won. Now they can promote all the agendas they feel as passionately about as we feel about ours. But at what cost? I will watch the clip again. I will research each fact because the better equipped I am the better intercessor I can be. I will honor the office of President regardless of who holds it. I will pray for God to reveal himself to our new president because our success depends on his success. I would love to see God use him as the rudder to turn this country toward righteousness. I KNOW my God is big enough to fulfill his promise to take what was meant for evil and turn it to good. Eli I believe you are becoming a great leader. I have loved the debate you have initiated. :)

at 11:58AM 11/08/08

abeleedy: @ Surrenda. Che actually Fought WITH Castro as a Marxist revolutionary. A communist. He spent the rest of his life pursuing Marxist revolution in Latin America and Africa. If Marxism was a good thing he would be considered a great man, and his actual motives may have been to fight for equality and justice for the poor and underprivileged, but he sure chose the wrong ideology to accomplish that. It has produced nothing good anywhere it has been tried.Many Cuban expatriots living in USA consider him to have been a brutal butcher. Too bad his great zeal wasn't for Jesus and the kingdom. He could have accomplished much good. Instead, it was for Marxist communism. An ideology conceived in Hell.

at 12:12PM 11/08/08

surrenda: @abeleedy,
The point that I'm trying to make is simple. There are a lot of Cubans and Cuban Americans that see him from a different perspective. Where as you see him as a Marxist. (no arguing there) Some see him as a man who defied Fidel Castro almost to the point of defeat and therefore he is a hero to them. I don't agree with everything that Malcolm X stood for. However as an African American. I can say that his role in American history was very vital to our equality... I'm sure that is how a lot of Cubans view Che.

at 02:02PM 11/08/08

tovah: So did he fight alongside or against Castro? On what basis do either of you claim to know how Cuban and Cuban Americans view him? I don't know anything about the guy, but each of your arguments are weak on substantiation...
...Love you dad ;)

at 02:19PM 11/08/08

surrenda: @tovah,
He did both... At one time he helped a young Fidel Castro... This was at a time when Cuba was under the influence of another dictator. Who was known to be worse than Fidel... The people gathered around Fidel in hopes to be freed from dictatorship only to find themselves in the same circumstances once he took over. However that is besides the point. In this video they are trying to tie Obama in with the teaching of Che. One of their proofs is the flag that is shown in the photograph on this thread. This is supposedly taken at a Obama campaign headquarters somewhere in Florida. I am simply pointing out that some Cubans see Che as a hero and that is why the flag is there. The flag has nothing to do with President Elect Obama! As far as on what basis goes... All you have to do is look at the pic! A picture says a thousands words...

at 02:34PM 11/08/08

abeleedy: Tov, google it. Che never opposed Castro. The only thing anyone inside or outside of Cuba revere him for is his status as the icon of Marxist revolution. He arranged Cuba's association with the Soviet Union but later came to prefer Maoism over Soviet style communism. He resigned his prominent positions in the Cuban Castro government and left Cuba to stir up revolutions in Africa, (Mozambique Tov, but priamarily the congo,) and then ended up in Bolivia where with the help of the U.S. CIA, he was captured and executed. I can't find anything about him ever resisting Castro. So for me to document that would be like asking me to document that George Bush never kissed a Martian. There is nothing written about it. That is the"substantiaion." Bottom line though Surrenda, none of this has anything to do with Pres. elect Obama. Just because someone had Che's pic on the wall in a campaign headquarters. He may have been unaware of it. He himself, however in his own book admits that while at University he and his friends "sought out and befriended every Marxist professor."

at 04:04PM 11/08/08

surrenda: @abeleedy,
Rest assure, Che was not one of them! Being that he has been dead for a long time now... Also I didn't think that there anything wrong with loving ones neighbor or enemy... If we never meet them, then how can we love them???!!!

at 06:24PM 11/08/08

abeleedy: I don't think he was befriending them to share the love of Christ, according to the context of the book, and his "liberation" theology version of Christianity which motivated many people during the 70's to support Marxist revolution in Central America and elsewhere. I don't have to look that up. I was in my 20's then and read it in the news every day. A lot of Catholics were into "liberation theology" at that time. Not saying there wasn't some liberation needed, and there still is, but for so-called Christians to ally with a totalitarian, atheistic belief system seemed pretty strange. Pres. elect Obama's pastor is (was) a racist hater. That doesn't mean Obama is of course. I don't think he is. I'm hoping and praying for the best for him and for our country. I am very happy to have a black president. I told you before that racism was dead. this election has proven me right. Right??? :) I know, there will always be white-trash and trash of every color who will be ignorant and hateful. My two black nephews who I love have endured things that make me want to hurt someone. I guess that won't ever totally go away in this world anyway. Thanks for the discussion. Blessings.

at 07:24PM 11/08/08

johnlawson: Does it bug anyone else that Mr. Obama is refered to solely as a "black man" when he is 1/2 white. Am I mistaken here? He is half white, right?

at 07:29PM 11/08/08

abeleedy: I have found that anyone who is any part black will almost always assume a "black" identity. Maybe because that is what they are labeled by everyone else. My own half-black niece who looks more white to me, when watching a black television show said " there are my people." I was thinking, "What am I...chopped liver?" I am her people. Just an interesting anecdote.

at 07:39PM 11/08/08

surrenda: I always thought that they idenified him as black because his dad was black... But I could be wrong...

at 08:35PM 11/08/08

eleedy: ok, a couple quick things.....

Che was an evil Marxist who slaughtered thousands of people, I don't care if some misguided Cuban believes differently, facts are facts. I do not believe, necessarily that there is any direct connection between Obama and Che, that would be naive. However, it is true that he respects those who promote Liberation Theology and Marxist ways. That has nothing to do with "loving your enemies", it has EVERYTHING to do with being on the wrong side of ideology.

Any ideology that holds the needs and considerations of one race or people group over another is racism. Black Liberation Theology does this completely.

Again, none of this really matters, at this point, because Obama is our President (elect), it is too late to point out his faults and convince people he is not qualified for the highest position in the nation. We must now honor him and support him, come together as one nation and pray that he is a great President and leads our nation in the right direction.

at 08:46PM 11/08/08

johnlawson: I remember when Tiger Woods came on the scene he refused to be the "poster child" for race relations. He said if he sided with black people he'd alienate his little mommy and visa versa. I wish Mr. Obama took more of a Tiger woods approach.

at 08:55PM 11/08/08

eleedy: @surrenda, they identify him as a black man because HE identifies himself as a black man, and with the "black community".

at 09:01PM 11/08/08

abeleedy: @johnlawson. Interesting point. I remember that. He refused to be racially labeled. I really respected him for that. His own very classy stand against racism.

at 06:26AM 11/09/08

gingers1025: @Eli I believe this post-election thread has had more relevance than it did before the election. Now no one has anything to "win" and it is purely to stretch each other to see a different perspective. I think the ethics here and the debate are more important than convincing people who to vote for. As for facts being facts I think many times we find the "facts" that support our preconceived conclusions. I believe many times we present our ideas in such a rigid way that we actually scare people out of our point of view. The question for me is how do I do the following:
Love the Opponent (in this case Obama but any other person or ideology) but hate his tactics, ideology etc.
Present my perception of the Opposition in a way that is passionate, intelligent, and articulate.
Be secure enough in myself and my God to handle the fact that others may never agree.
Love and respect those that don't agree.
I think continuing debates like this allow us to hone those skills and better prepare us for a future victory.

at 09:06AM 11/09/08

abeleedy: Dead thread.

at 03:05AM 11/10/08

gingers1025: lol

at 07:58AM 11/10/08

gingers1025: But not a dead topic :)

at 07:59AM 11/10/08

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