Keeping up on the results

yogajaclyn: me too.....I feel sick

at 06:04PM 11/04/08

jen: i'm doing it online...this is one time I wish we had cable TV

at 06:05PM 11/04/08

carliray: you don't have cable jen?

at 06:08PM 11/04/08

britt: same here, jen. kinda choppy stream. boo.

at 06:09PM 11/04/08

jen: no cable...we haven't had it for awhile. all the shows I like are online and it's free

at 06:10PM 11/04/08

carliray: thats what we do too...watch shows online, and the girls watch PBS.

at 06:11PM 11/04/08

chicoweb: All the websites are hammered. Having a hard time finding a website that responds.

at 06:16PM 11/04/08

mike: Obama has it.

at 06:27PM 11/04/08

britt: i would tell you to shut your mouth, but i'm on your feed.

at 06:29PM 11/04/08

yogajaclyn: Americans can be such sheep......I feel realllly sick now!

at 06:32PM 11/04/08

mike: I can't believe people are calling Obama the Anti-Christ now. So irresponsible and stupid.

at 06:48PM 11/04/08

dmill: who's saying that?

at 06:54PM 11/04/08

jen: even FoxNews says Obama has it. It's amazing they can tell so early on.

at 06:55PM 11/04/08

carliray: you're the only one I've heard call him that..

at 06:55PM 11/04/08

mike: I saw it on another post on this site. It was deleted.

at 06:58PM 11/04/08

carliray: yeah I saw it too...it was you that said it.

at 06:59PM 11/04/08

mike: right. if you read the scripture that was being quoted that is what it was implying.

at 07:00PM 11/04/08

mike: like I said.. ridiculous.

at 07:01PM 11/04/08

Reggie: welcome to socialism

at 07:03PM 11/04/08

marcus: I can honestly say that I have never been more proud of my country. The youth have finally shown their teeth. Science has won out over myth - the ridiculous religious right has finally lost it's stranglehold. It's amazing what affect Bush has had - I am almost thankful for his corruption to bring us this.

at 07:10PM 11/04/08

marcus: ...That said, I will still be disappointed if CA Proposition 8 passes.

at 07:13PM 11/04/08

britt: reggie, you crack me up.

at 07:14PM 11/04/08

carliray: haha reggie!

at 07:15PM 11/04/08

yogajaclyn: @Marcus - you are being just as judgmental as the "religious" - what makes you anything different? Your argument will always be Liberal and mine Conservative. Just because you yell louder doesn't mean your intelligent. "Youth" - ....you say that the YOUTH of this country know best...the same ones who stare at video games and were raised by MTV. Now that is Ridiculous (to quote Mike). I'm out...this all makes me angry....

at 07:22PM 11/04/08

yogajaclyn: *you're*

at 07:23PM 11/04/08

aslan: @marcus..... It's good to see that you, too, have "beliefs", totally unsupported by any scientific data..., not only beliefs, but a healthy amount of prejudice as well. Welcome to the human race. I submit your comments as proof of the fallen nature of mankind...... self focused and self absorbed. :)

at 07:23PM 11/04/08

jen: go Jaclyn!!! Marcus don't start name calling...

at 07:25PM 11/04/08

mike: @aslan: "totally unsupported by any scientific data" Let's not start this again. If this is what you truly believe you just haven't looked hard enough or you don't understand what you are seeing.

at 07:31PM 11/04/08

aslan: @mike... If my memory serves me correctly, it was never finished :)......
but then, I DO understand both your and marcus' comments, or should have. You couldn't do otherwise but be sitting at your computers, typing the words that appear. You are where you "must" be doing what you "must" do, responding as you "must" respond. Your comment, "ridiculous religious right" (which might be seen as a prejudice arising from a stereotype), is but a product of a combination of genetics and environmental, life experiences. I failed to take the fundamental, deterministic assumption of "science" into account. My apologies. :)

at 07:53PM 11/04/08

mike: Actually, I didn't say "ridiculous religious right".

at 08:45PM 11/04/08

marcus: That was me ;)

at 08:46PM 11/04/08

michaellamb: sounds like some peep's are a little miffed, guess they will have to find another political party to latch on to.

at 08:50PM 11/04/08

marcus: BTW, my view on this is purely political - just pointing out how the courtship between the RNC and the religious right will most likely be coming to a end. As for the youth movement, yes, you are right - me and my friends just sit around and play video games all day and watch MTV. Kids these days!

at 08:53PM 11/04/08

jen: Marcus how old are you? are you really a youth?

at 08:55PM 11/04/08

lindsay: uuuuh vid games rock! how could you dispute that regardless of how you felt about the election results?

at 08:58PM 11/04/08

bender: video games do rock!

at 09:02PM 11/04/08

marcus: 18 - 30 is usually considered the youth vote and yes I miss this bracket by a year :) But I can tell you I had MTV on growing up and have played my fair share of video games. I have also voted in the last 4 presidential elections.

at 09:06PM 11/04/08

lindsay: also, i try to keep marcus' mind young by bringing copies of maxim magazine and nintendo power into the office. pop quizzes are scheduled every monday at 3:15pm

at 09:09PM 11/04/08

lindsay: Shit! ....i guess they aren't pop quizzes anymore.

at 09:10PM 11/04/08

lindsay: @bender: word

at 09:12PM 11/04/08

branigan: I think you have to admit that the group of friends that revolve around the relynet crowd are not your typical "youths".

at 09:15PM 11/04/08

yogajaclyn: youth is not 18-30. Youth at Target states 12-18. Religious right ending? I have no choice but to call you a fool and contest that with every breath I take. I have never been called a "Jesus Freak" but in this case.... Go for it. My last question for u is.....What if you're wrong? What if there's more than this life? What have "I" lost vs. U?

at 09:15PM 11/04/08

lindsay: @yoga. if 12-18 was considered the youth vote, the youth turnout for an election would be 0%. have to be 18 to vote. he's referring to demographic data.

at 09:17PM 11/04/08

marcus: Thanks Lindsay - yes, that's what I'm referring to. I'm not saying that the religious right is going to go away - I'm just saying that it is probably going to have to find a new political party since the republicans only courted it to get votes in the first place and it apparently no longer helps.

at 09:23PM 11/04/08

yogajaclyn: thanks...point being YOUTH should not run this country....it was a "sarcastic point". Sorry if I sound super bitchy, I'm just tired of apologizing for my views.....annoyed to no end......I'm proud of my faith....proud of my stand......hard not to get frustrated

at 09:23PM 11/04/08

britt: pretty sure acorn helped in representing the 'youth'

and disney characters.

at 09:26PM 11/04/08

yogajaclyn: I also believe what the Bible says "honoring our leaders" and that I will do.... I will suppport our country and honor the leadership Obama is given , but do my part to support the issues I stand for. Unlike some, who have bashed Bush and tried to tear down our commander in chief..... That is a disgrace

at 09:27PM 11/04/08

britt: well, congratulations to those for which this is a happy night. I am with Jaclyn; we're called to serve, not hate.

at 09:41PM 11/04/08

willow: I just wanted to say to all of those who support Mccain that he really did his country and his constituents proud tonight. His concession speech was inspired and I only wish this was the Mccain that we had seen throughout the entire campaign. He truly showed what is it to rise above the fight and to support our country above all. Tonight I am proud to be an American.

at 09:45PM 11/04/08

yogajaclyn: willow.....cheers

at 09:48PM 11/04/08

lindsay: @willow: totally agreed. very classy speech.

at 09:49PM 11/04/08

Christy: how quickly we have forgotten how everyone claimed the democrats were confused, scattered, destroyed after both the 2000 and 2004 election. I agree with you yogajaclyn, 1 and even 2 elections is not going to "end" any political party. My prediction is that in 2012 the Republicans will take back both the House and the Senate, possibly the Presidency.

at 12:16AM 11/05/08

Christy: and thank you Reggie for your comment and I agree, Welcome to Socialism! Just wait! Obama and his tax plan, and his spreading the wealth because it is patriotic is going to send our economy into a depression.

at 12:20AM 11/05/08

marcus: OMG - do you even read what I have written? I did not say this is the end of the RNC/GOP or the religious right. Again - I did not say that it is the end of the RNC / GOP or the religious right. Read it again. See? So that being said, how is someone supposed to have a conversation with you when you fly off the handle at things that were never even stated?

at 12:44AM 11/05/08

yogajaclyn: I read what you wrote....I still say you are implying that religion is being slowly taken out of politics...and that is sad to me. I can't help it....I get all fired up! At least give me that since Obama won. Again, sorry for being such a hot head - I'm usually very even-tempered. Thank goodness this is all over....my nerves are shot!

at 07:21AM 11/05/08

mike: I think Marcus is hitting on a very interesting point. The 2000 and 2004 elections where decided by mobilizing the evangelical vote. Now that the evangelicals have fallen out of favor over the last few years with the Ted Haggard controversy, the late Jerry Falwell blaming gays, feminists and abortionists for the September 11th, clashes with known science thinking, and general overexposure the GOP has no need for them. I think Republican strategists are going to rethink their alliances in an attempt to hold on to their dwindling power and stage a come back.

at 10:07AM 11/05/08

aslan: @mike: !st, I recognize that the "religious right" comment was not yours. Didn't mean to imply that it was.
Secondly with regard to your 10:07 AM comment, if it's that simple, how does one explain the amendments to state constitutions defining marriage as a heterosexual relationship in 3 states: Arizona, Florida, and California, perhaps the most liberal of the 50...? That's a pretty conservative position.

at 10:30AM 11/05/08

michaellamb: like i said in another thread, looks like we have another hurlde of hatred and civil rights to overcome.

at 10:36AM 11/05/08

jen: I'm still a youth???? awesome!

at 10:40AM 11/05/08

Christy: Mike come on!!! Your 10:07 AM comment is ridiculous!

at 10:54AM 11/05/08

mike: I don't think it is.

at 10:55AM 11/05/08

curmorpheus: I don't see where it's ridiculous, I think Mike has some valid points.

at 11:00AM 11/05/08

mike: Although I would rephrase "no need for them" to "less need for them".

at 11:02AM 11/05/08

mike: @aslan: Superior campaigning?

at 11:31AM 11/05/08

michaellamb: I am having a hard time understanding all the religious crowd's angst, or whatever you want to call it, at Obama being chosen as President. All this talk(not just in this thread) about "the church", "pray for him", "sad day". What about Obama's faith, religion, church? Is his religion and church so WRONG that all the religion crowd is up in arms? It just shows me that religion is more of a cult type environment that others are attacking or instantly jumining on the offensive because someone does not believe in "their" religon or faith. I call bullshit, don't force your beliefs on others and don't say you are right or someone else is wrong just cause it does no mesh with your crowd.

at 11:56AM 11/05/08

jen: so are you forcing your beliefs as the only possibility. you say the religious people have angst? maybe some but you seem to have a lot of angst too...don't you think?

at 12:06PM 11/05/08

jen: Also...if McCain won would you be celebrating?

at 12:07PM 11/05/08

ian: People who voted for McCain are bummed.
People who voted for Obama are happy.
People who voted Yes on 8 were voting not hating.
People who voted No on 8 were voting too.
Obama's pastor is a little whacked, makes people jittery.
I don't see any "forcing" on either side, just emotions and expressing opinions.

Let's keep it above the belt and start round two... DING DING!

at 12:17PM 11/05/08

bina: if u kill something enough times on a video or watch something being killed enough times on tv then when something -- say an unborn baby in the last trimester of its life that is born alive during a partial birth abortion and left on a table in a darkened room to die doesn't seem like any big deal -- its called systematic desensitization. that's all i'm saying on this .... i cry for the babies left alone to die in a darkened room somewhere....

at 12:37PM 11/05/08

jpatin: Wow, I don't normally get involved in these conversations, but I have to say Bravo to YogaJac! Way to stand up for your beliefs! I'm exactly where you are at. You too Jen! I didn't vote for Obama for many reasons, and yes a lot of them are because his stand on many issues conflict with mine on a moral ground. I've heard the argument that we are "no longer a Christian only" nation, but we were founded it and that will never change. And as a Christian and AMERICAN, I too will support my president, no matter who it is. I will pray that his choices are what's best for EVERYBODY! But people saying that they will pray for him is not a negative thing! Whether you believe in the God I do or not, prayer is NEVER a bad thing! I will also say something positive about Obama. While I was sad that McCain didn't win, I am thrilled at what this will do for the African American Community in general! I think it's a huge step forward for us...in that regard. I'm hoping that Obama will change things! Ok, that's my 2 cents! Thanks guys!

at 12:38PM 11/05/08

michaellamb: @jen, if in my statment you read "don't force your beliefs on others" as my belef, then yes. but if you misread my post as describing any other possible belief i might have, then no. Also, I didn't say I was angry about anything, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt in that it is hard to read emotions from just looking at text and not knowing the person who is writing it. If McCain won, then I personally would have no issue in supporting him as our president.

@prop8 voters, you actually TOOK AWAY SOMEONES RIGHTS. think about that long and hard, you voted to take someones rights away from them to not be treated equally. Taking somone's rights away is absolutely mind boggling to me, but the people have spoken and I accept it until the next time we vote on it.

at 01:02PM 11/05/08

yogajaclyn: @michaellamb - I'm assuming you have not seen any video of Obama's pastor. Is that correct? @jpatin - well said. I do not thing Obama is a terrible person - or can't be a decent president - he just doesn't stand for what I believe in. Only time will tell if his leadership will have a positive outcome. I know others believe that we are "wacky" Christians and can't see anything positive about Obama...but that's not true. I have spent the last four years listening to half of my friends bash Bush and do whatever they can to show their disgust for him....is that any different from me saying that Obama doesn't fit with my beliefs? Only thing I have to say about Prop 8 - how are you going to feel when a school teaches sex ed to your child and has to explain male gay sex. THAT is hard for me to support!!!! I hope this discussion can be calm and informative....each of us can learn from each other.

at 01:21PM 11/05/08

lindsey: I think its totally bizarre for us as adults not to teach kids about things that are happening out in the world. I doubt that schools are going to be showing videos and male anatomy models and saying, when men love eachother they put their _____ in _____. Just like they are likely not teaching about oral sex, or other sex acts between males and females, they are teaching about reproduction, not how to achieve pleasure from sex. As in the basics. I would have no problem with my child hearing about whats happening in reality, I think she deserves to know, and if not from me or school, then from who? She grows up wondering about it, feeling guilty or ashamed for wondering because everyone is talking about how bad it is? I hope not, I'd rather her have the information to feel free and good about having the information and deciding for herself.

at 01:30PM 11/05/08

yogajaclyn: I think we will have to agree to disagree - and that's okay.

at 01:32PM 11/05/08

aslan: @mike: I agree in part. Superior campaigning did have a lot to do with Prop 8's passage. Can the same be said of Obama's victory? I don't think anyone in the future will base their campaign strategies on McCain's approach. Could it be that there is not as much support of Obama's platform (whatever that was....change?...yes we can? ) as of his personal charisma and superior political strategies?

at 01:33PM 11/05/08

britt: " think about that long and hard, you voted to take someones rights away from them to not be treated equally."

nobody is taking away anybody's right to lifestyle choice.

at 01:39PM 11/05/08

michaellamb: @yogajaclyn, i am not going to judge anyone because their pastor says some crazy stuff. was obama there, was he preaching or repeating what the pastor said as his beliefs? did he not denounce the pastor for those comments made in the videos? and you can go on some tangent about how he was a member of his church for so many years and said nothing, but it is my understanding that people will attend a church with their peers for the general belief of that church, and not a single pastors beliefs. pastors come and go, but the general group of people and beliefs remain.

and on prop8, every single person i have talked to that is a teacher or has a relationship with a teacher locally has said that teaching anything related to "gay" relationships, marriage, or sex is no where near anything they teach or were suppose to teach. but i give all the supporters and churches big props for scaring the general public into thinking that, it obviously worked. there is nothing in the actual prop8 proposal that said that teachers would be required to teach anything about "gay sex". it basically boiled down to "Eliminates Right of Same-Sex Couples to Marry". nothing else, no hidden text, no other weird agenda. a right that was already granted to them, and the people took it away.

at 01:43PM 11/05/08

ian: The right for homosexuals to marry in California wasn't voted on until this election. It wasn't something the general public let pass then took away. It was a court verdict that 'we the people' got to weigh in on.

Homosexuals have the exact same rights as any single American. It's the union that is in question.

at 01:44PM 11/05/08

jocelyn11: I have a problem with the word "preference." That implies choice. I wholeheartedly believe there is no choice in the matter. Do heterosexual people "choose" to be attracted to the opposite sex? I don't think so. I think it is a natural attraction, just like you prefer blonds over brunettes. Why would anyone choose to live their life that way?

at 01:46PM 11/05/08

michaellamb: one could say the same about your choice of religion being just that, "a lifestyle choice"

at 01:46PM 11/05/08

yogajaclyn: Twenty years at a single church....and Obama doesn't seem like the type of guy to just sit and be a non-participating member...if so....HE SHOULD NOT BE OUR PRESIDENT IF HE CAN'T FRIGGIN' STAND UP TO HIS PASTOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! As far as Prop8 - Agree to Disagree.

at 01:47PM 11/05/08

britt: true. i choose to live my life in a style dictated by my religion. because, apart from the transcendental aspects, i believe it good for me and good for society as a whole.

at 01:50PM 11/05/08

nicolemarie: 1 Peter 2:13-17 Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, 14 or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right. 15 For it is God's will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish men. 16 Live as free men, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God. 17 Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers, fear God, honor the king.

at 01:51PM 11/05/08

jpatin: k seriously? No one's rights have been changed or taken away! California recognized "Domestic Partnerships" in 2005 and they get almost all the same rights and benefits of a "married" hetrosexual couple. Except it's not recognized as the official word "marriage"

at 01:52PM 11/05/08

jpatin: @lamb...I guess you didn't hear about the teacher in San Fransisco who took her class to her OWN lesbian wedding without consulting one parent for permission!

at 01:57PM 11/05/08

lindsey: Well, obviously it was inappropriate to take a class anywhere without asking the parents, but I think thats the same with taking them anywhere without asking. I couldnt care less about it being to a lesbian wedding.

at 02:00PM 11/05/08

jocelyn11: How does the fact that Bruce and Tom want to get "married" affect you?

at 02:00PM 11/05/08

lindsey: I know everyones fired up about this issue, but it sounds kind of comical adults expecting kids to even know what those things MEAN before they are even having sex hormones going through their bodies! Totally unfair, even if all they said was " do you feel like a heterosexual" its like, uh, huh?

at 02:06PM 11/05/08

jpatin: My whole point is that they are saying it won't be in schools. IT was. And I agree with you Lindsey in that I don't want to shelter my kids from the real world. But I would like to teach the difference between traditional marriage and samesex marriage and all that that "entails". I I don't think that Kindergarten is an appropriate age for that either. And with Leanne, she's right..some just want to be spiteful and make a point. Churches should be able to maintain the right to refuse to marry someone on moral grounds. I too know some who are homosexual and we treat eachother the same way I treat my friends. Not all who vote yes on 8 are voting to discriminate.

at 02:07PM 11/05/08

ian: mrspastorz when did this happen? and how old are your children that were involved?

at 02:07PM 11/05/08

jen: I totally agree Lindsey! I can't stand it when people ask my kids if they have a boyfriend/girlfriend. That is the furthest thing from their minds.

at 02:10PM 11/05/08

jocelyn11: What does it "entail"? Are they really that different? Do you think there are things homosexual couples to that heterosexual couples don't? Do they pay their taxes differently? Maybe vaccuum in a strange way?

at 02:13PM 11/05/08

jpatin: I was referring to the sex part of it. I want to be the one to teach her about the differences between sex between man and woman and the opposite! ANd I don't feel I should have to teach her at 5 or 6 to do it before she gets it at school.

at 02:16PM 11/05/08

jpatin: @leanne...I know you weren't being judgemental...but I also know that people would do that to make a point...

at 02:18PM 11/05/08

michaellamb: @mrspastorz, besides it being pretty close to the time that prop8 was in full effect. were your children at any other time presented with the same information and asked the same questions by their teachers?

at 02:22PM 11/05/08

michaellamb: @jpatin, OMG, i seriously hope you have a different reference to a teacher in SF who took children to her lesbian wedding. cause the one that i know of that was very well publicized was a class where a PARENT planned and took the class to the wedding, NOT THE TEACHER.

at 02:26PM 11/05/08

jpatin: @lamb. you're right. I'm big enough to admit when I didn't have ALL the facts. I looked it up after you said that, and found what you said to be true. So for that I apologize. My goal is not change the facts or speak falsely. Normally I'm better about that before I speak! HOWEVER!!! My point that I was trying to make was that it will be taught ONE WAY or another. I read a quote that they thought it would be a teachable moment for them. Why? I also read that the class had never been to a traditional marriage. Wouldn't both then be "teachable moments?"

at 02:31PM 11/05/08

michaellamb: @jpatin: and the class also had permission from parents, all except two students who's parents opted out. this just goes to show how good the supporters did in confusing the general public in half truths.

at 02:32PM 11/05/08

jaclyn430: I would just like to say...thank you for an amusing couple of minutes you have all given me while I read your posts. That, and remember to be respectful people!!!

at 02:34PM 11/05/08

i_have_a_bmw: I would just like to point out that bush was never my chosen commander and chief! The courts ruled bush won even though he loss the popular vote but was able to get enough of the elector college that nobody but politicians understand! Must really hurt to find out that according to some the rest of the country is now a socialist!

at 02:34PM 11/05/08

bina: and the other side never does or says anything to "confuse the general public in half truths"....???????

at 02:37PM 11/05/08

jpatin: yeah I know, I read that too. I'm not even going to contest that part. I think at the heart, they were trying to say that it would be taught one way or another. But they should have told the whole story. But it wouldn't be fair to accuse only the supporters of prop 8 of sharing half truths. Unfortunately..both sides do it on a lot of issues. And I also have to say that I have to now go and spend time with my daughter's now...so I'm opting out of this debate as well!

at 02:38PM 11/05/08

jpatin: @bina...exactly!

at 02:39PM 11/05/08

jpatin: Bye, have a blessed day~

at 02:40PM 11/05/08

jaclyn430: "this just goes to show how good the supporters did in confusing the general public in half truths." Which is EXACTLY why people should research issues and BOTH sides before they vote. Unfortunatly, the general public does not.

at 02:40PM 11/05/08

michaellamb: @jaclyn430, agreed.

at 02:42PM 11/05/08

bina: no most of the general public doesn't -- most of the general public r so busy trying to keep a roof over their heads that they depend on the media to tell them what they need to know in a condensed manner -- however, the media is also fallible -- as r most of the world (i haven't met a perfect person yet). and she did apologize when she realized the mistake she had made -- grace should be given ...

at 02:48PM 11/05/08

nichole: I saw this post and am really not looking to argue but just have an honest question for michaellamb and others who were against prop 8.

Aside from it being taught in schools, ect. JUST looking at it from the perspective of taking away someone's rights. How then would you explain taking away a person's religious rights of preaching that the marriage between a man and a man or a woman & a woman is Biblically and morally (according to that religion) wrong? Wouldn't it be then interfering with rights either way? From YOUR stance, what makes one right more worthy than the other. Aren't you being a bit discriminatory as well. (In your case discriminating against a Christian belief?)?

From what I've read up on if Prop 8 didn't pass then it could be considered a hate crime to preach against homosexuality from the pulpit... and as mrspastorz said her husband could have been sued simply by choosing to follow his religion (meanwhile not putting anyone in danger.... simply choosing not to be the one to officiate a wedding he didn't agree with). I'm just curious as to how it is "violating" a right in one case and not the other..... Wouldn't you agree that you are discriminating towards "Christians" as you feel that Christians are discriminating towards homosexuals?

Once again, not looking to argue. Just genuinely interested in how it is not discriminatory the other way around.

at 02:48PM 11/05/08

jaclyn430: Bina, I was not referring to jpatin, nor anyone imparticular...other than the general voting public. I believe that everyone that votes has a responsability to research the issues. That does not mean that voters need to write a thesis on every subject, but do a little more research than just turning on CNN or FOX. Anyone who relies completly on the media for input should not be allowed to vote, just my opinion.

at 03:05PM 11/05/08

michaellamb: Unfortunately I did not hear anything about freedom of speech and religion being taken away from someone in regards to Prop8. If someone wants to refuse to marry a same-sex couple, than that is their choice, and it should be the choice of the couple to go another church or person that will accept them. I am saying their should be NO discrimination against anyone on either side, and no ones rights should be taken away.

at 03:12PM 11/05/08

jen: Jaclyn430..I agree. I read the raw data of the propositions and then arguments for both sides. Some that I didn't get or care I just didn't vote on so I wasn't casting an ignorant vote.

at 03:12PM 11/05/08

britt: michaellamb, what should the "right of marriage" involve?

at 03:21PM 11/05/08

colby: So what has everyone beenup2!?

at 03:21PM 11/05/08

jaclyn430: ***FYI-for future reference...you can go to your State's website, and they should have something similar to this: http://www.voterguide.sos.ca.gov/elections (under voter guide on the left hand side)
People should, at the very minimum read the arguments/rebuttals before they cast a ballot.

at 03:23PM 11/05/08

loren: @ colby: hahaha

at 03:29PM 11/05/08

michaellamb: @britt: again, i would not force my beliefs on anyone or expect them to be forced on me. i think that each person should be given the right to do as they please in this regard, no judgements. Equal rights for everyone, be that M-W, M-M, W-W, or FF's ;-)

golden rule applies.

at 03:30PM 11/05/08

nichole: @michaellamb -- In Canada, where the law sanctions same sex marriage, ministers who teach/preach against same sex marriage are subject to fines for hate speech. Recently the CA Supreme Court ruled that a San Diego physician was liable for failure to perform in vitro fertilization procedure for a lesbian couple when he refused for religious reasons and not only didn't harm her but referred her to another physician who would.

I'm just saying either way there seems to be discrimination. It's good to hear however, that you feel there should be NO discrimination. That, however, just isn't the case.

Does that make me a hateful person that I think I should have the right to choose what & when to teach things like this to my kids? Does it make me a hateful person that I want to follow my religion without having to watch what I say I believe for fear of being sued? Of course not. No more than it makes you a hateful person for feeling like a homosexual has a right to be married.

I guess I just don't like that "Christians" are treated as though they are hateful people for simply having beliefs. They may be different from your own, but I guarantee to you that if you were to hang out with me, or any Christians that I PERSONALLY am surrounded by, that is the LAST conclusion you would make :).

BTW you asked earlier why people are praying....., a big reason I have been not supportive of Obama is because he does not defend the life of the unborn. When a friend suffers a miscarriage we grieve with her over the loss of her baby, when a friend finds out she is pregnant with a boy or girl we celebrate and buy presents and stuff to decorate the nursery with. But when a parent decides they aren't ready for this pregnancy we say it's not a baby and are completely okay with killing it. I dare anyone who is pro-choice to wait outside of a OBGYN for a pregnant lady to come out and tell that woman that what she is carrying is not worthy of life. Seriously. That is why I am grieved. That is why I will be praying for Obama and our country. Not because I am scared of them, but because someone needs to protect those babies.

at 03:41PM 11/05/08

Christy: Totally off the subject but, I think it is a shame that schools are teaching kids about sexuality, reproduction, etc. As a parent, it makes me cringe especially in elementary school. Every child matures differently and learns differently and I think that most parents know their children better than their teachers do and the parents should be the ones to teach their children about this subject.

at 03:48PM 11/05/08

bina: @jaclyn430: u wrote "Anyone who relies completly on the media for input should not be allowed to vote, just my opinion."
according to ur criteria for being able to vote, we're going to have a lot of ppl not voting because, as i said before, most ppl don't have the time to do the research and do rely on the media, when they do have a few minutes, to get their information. in a perfect wold we would all have all the time we need to do the research and would have easy access to it all. in a perfect world, there would be no disagreeing. in a perfect world ... well, as u can see, its not a perfect world and most ppl do the best they can to get the information they need. to take away their right to vote simply because they don't have the information u feel they need to make an informed choice -- well, idk what to say ....

at 04:02PM 11/05/08

corey: back to the picture posted.....
is CNN Electi a permanent station?

at 04:45PM 11/05/08

jaclyn430: Bina, seriously?
I have a feeling we may share the same political views, but I totally disagree with you that people should vote without researching the topics and issues (because of lack of time!?), and ONLY using the media's views to base their decisions. If you do not understand the issues, or do not know what the outcome might be, then why even vote at all?! Again, not saying that people need to write a thesis, but shouldn't you at least have your own opinions after looking into issues, and THEN make a decision? You wouldn't just (I hope) purchase a house without looking into the details a little, and walking through it right? You would want to know if it was a stable structure, had a good roof, is it in the right neighborhood, good school system, etc. Why then, should voting be any different? It's a serious thing that effects EVERY American.

Yes, people are busy...people have jobs, and church, and kids, and social lifes, and other events that take time. No, it's probably not practical that people will devote very much time to researching issues. BUT, to ONLY take the "media's word for it" is only doing yourself and fellow Americans a disservice. It doesn't take too much time to read, at the very least, the arguments/rebuttals, and/or either sides' analysis on the issues.
(If a CA resident, see my above post w/ a link to the ca.gov website)

That said, it's my opinion, and you are free to disagree. I hope that in the future, people will dig a little before voting, and not just base thier vote on the media's views and opinions, using them as their only resource.

at 04:55PM 11/05/08

britt: michaellamb, what about M-M-M or W-W-W and variations thereof?

at 05:01PM 11/05/08

loren: or w-w-m, that would work too

at 05:05PM 11/05/08

loren: i thought most people just vote for whatever Matt damon says to:

http://www.beenup2.com/photos/312422-matt-damon-has-lost-all-credibility

at 05:08PM 11/05/08

michaellamb: @britt, probably a bait question into a whole other argument, but i personally don't believe in that and would not expect it to be supported as a "marriage". getting kind of outside the marriage between TWO people argument.

someone watching a little to much "big love" on HBO?

btw, anyone know when that comes back on the air, good and interesting show.

at 05:11PM 11/05/08

lindsay: w-w-m? never thought of that. i wonder if i can find any literature or perhaps a vhs tape about such a thing.

at 05:13PM 11/05/08

bender: @christy - why is it a shame that schools are teaching sex ed? parents have the option of taking their kids out of the program before it even starts. parents can even preview the materials too! it's a shame when parents have priorities over their children

at 05:14PM 11/05/08

lindsay: dude. that show is awesome. no idea when it is back on the air though

at 05:14PM 11/05/08

britt: i don't have a TV. :)

at 05:16PM 11/05/08

bina: @jaclyn430: ur wrote "Bina, seriously?
I have a feeling we may share the same political views"
and ur basing this on what information?

i still say that taking away someone's right to vote simply because the only information they had time to glean on issues was from the media is poor thinking ...

at 05:18PM 11/05/08

bina: @bender -- u wrote that parents have the option to take their kids out of the program but in Mass. that's not the case. go watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cWw2sKO3ws

they rn't the only family. several families have been told that this is not a parent opt out program and that it is not a parental notification program either. where r the parents' rights??

at 05:32PM 11/05/08

lindsay: the peeps in Mass could probably vote about that. which peeps in this thread live in Mass?

at 05:40PM 11/05/08

britt: m.l. -first cousins?

at 05:40PM 11/05/08

bina: the only reason i brought this up is because i live in NH -- which borders Mass. so we have heard a lot about this ....

at 05:41PM 11/05/08

joel: michaellamb, whoever you are, it sounds like you're experimenting with libertarianism. Which is fine. But you're avoiding legit questions: What rights should people not be allowed to have? Currently people may not engage in polygamy, take illegal drugs, marry a sibling, carry a weapon in public (without government approval), own a machine gun, attempt suicide, drive without wearing a seatbelt, ride a motorcycle without wearing a helmet, drive without car insurance and so on ad nauseum. If you can't define the boundaries of "don't force your beliefs on me" then your argument is sort of silly.

Not to mention taxation, which, it could be argued, robs people of economic freedom.

at 05:59PM 11/05/08

jaclyn430: Bina...I based that on your reactions towards other posters who have responded. Your responses seemed to be supportive of their views, and I happen to be good friends with the posters you responded to, and I know their political preferences. SO, because you agreed with them, it seemed that perhaps we share the same political party associations. Perhaps not. And I really think that an uninformed vote, is a wasted vote, and I still think that people should not vote one way or the other based ONLY on what the media says. And I still think that people who do not take a couple of minutes to read up and form their own opinions should not vote. Because, then why are they voting? Just to say that they voted?

at 06:08PM 11/05/08

bina: we could ask Ed Brown (who lived down the road here in NH) about how he feels about taxation ...

at 06:10PM 11/05/08

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